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You seem confused. People who pay 100% cash can still look for a deal. We did. We found a smaller reputable company to do it, every bit as professional since that is what we needed for such a large job. The issue is that larger companies charge more because they have to. You made that clear. How then, would that be market rate for the same job?
The companies that I am talking about are not huge. These companies are 5-6 men crews with 2-3 trucks and an office in the house... That type of company cost $1,200 - $1,800 per day to run...
My overhead is fairly low compared to other companies. I learned a hard lesson in a previous business with a store front and everything that goes along with that type of overhead.
DesignBuild56,,, Thank you, I'm doing well with a fantastic client base that keeps me comfortable busy. They are a joy to work for and is why I stay in the game. My spring/summer is booked with some challenging projects and now looking to bring on one or more hands to help bring it all together. I don't commit further then 4-5 months because I like to keep my options open. You never know what profitable project will come up next and I want to pick and choose.
How reputable and professional are they if they're skirting the laws to do an under the table deal with you? I'm not risking IRS troubles to save you a few bucks on your project.
I said I used unlicensed before, but that was for bathrooms on the 1st floor and the basement. We used the licensed company you're referencing (no law-breaking) for an entire 2nd floor (4 beds, 2 baths and a lot of 1st floor reno minus the bathrooms). The owner was on the job site 90% of the time and he quoted us the initial figure and worked with our budget no problem. I knew the workers by first name and couldn't be happier with how it turned out. They were reputable because we contacted references after seeing their jobs in the neighborhood.
I've said it before - larger jobs should be licensed. But licensed companies can be large or small. You don't have to do as you stated above - which is why it's unfortunate larger companies can't compete due only to overhead. Higher prices are obviously not just skill/performance-based, so nobody should be saying lower prices are only because of hacks in the business. If you're not a large company AND charge the going rate, you should have nothing to worry about - you should still get enough business.
I've said it before - larger jobs should be licensed. But licensed companies can be large or small. You don't have to do as you stated above - which is why it's unfortunate larger companies can't compete due only to overhead. Higher prices are obviously not just skill/performance-based, so nobody should be saying lower prices are only because of hacks in the business. If you're not a large company AND charge the going rate, you should have nothing to worry about - you should still get enough business.
Large companies have the benefit of multiple crews and performing many jobs at once creating volume sales. Many of them also sell various product lines which they will be installing if hired. They're making money on the sale of the bathroom fixtures, kitchen cabinets, windows, etc., marking them up and adding to the bottom line. Some large companies offer financing which is yet another revenue source for them.
The large company's 'going rate' is reduced by these additional income streams. A smaller company without those additional revenue sources can't reduce it's going rate to compete with the other without losing money.
Larger companies might offer their own plumbers and electricians, but only have one master on staff with the rest working under that licensing. In other words, the guy wiring your addition might not be a fully licensed electrician. This is another way the big guys can trim costs and payroll. We smaller companies have to use licensed electricians and plumbers (who we don't keep on the payroll) and are required to keep records on their liability and workers comp insurance, as well as obtain indemnifications from them for each job site they're on. That's another level of record keeping that larger companies with in house electrician and plumbers can avoid.
Not just larger jobs.... Licensed contractors required for ALL jobs... It's the law, sorry... But it's really ridiculous that there's so many unlicensed guys out there anyway... It's only $200/yr for a license, and insurance is chump change when factored into a years worth of business costs.
I think I was mistaken about your 100% cash comment... I didnt see it referring to DesignBuild's post... I thought you were looking for contractors to do under the table deals so that $$ wouldnt get reported on everyone's taxes.
Bonded/Licensed Contractors in LI must be making too much money. I've received 3 referrals, found 1 guy through web search and 1 guy from Angie's List.
1 didn't bother to show up for a site visit, even though he picked the date and time.
1 showed up, and can't be found anymore
And the others can't find the time to write up a quote (time elapsed is between 1-2 weeks since they received the plans).
The extension job isn't small, should easily be over 100K (probably a lot more considering some of the prices being thrown around at C-D). Architect drawn plans, just waiting for a structural engineers 'stamp of approval' on how the foundation ties in.
Say what you want about the immigrant contractors. Whether the hispanic or asian variety. But at least they respond fast with pricing and ready to work. Too bad most of them just aren't licensed properly to work in Long Island.
A lot of contractors are working full time somewhere else and contracting is the second job. The don't respond you are lucky, those are the ones that will be a headache.
A lot of contractors are working full time somewhere else and contracting is the second job. The don't respond you are lucky, those are the ones that will be a headache.
At the end of the day the legal guy is trying to make $$ and stay in business, the unlicensed guy is trying to make a living and the customer is trying to get the best job done for the least amount of money.
I am going to gut my kitchen I am going to start the design and plan in a few weeks. I will do all the measuring order the cabinets on my own and install them. I will go to a place in queens I used for a piece of stone before, I think they are licensed but I did pay cash last time to get a better deal. I will pay them the to measure and install the quartz. I am not moving any walls but need an electrician to move 2 outlets and move them to a new circuit as I don't like to mess with electric. I will use a guy that works for coned that does side jobs on the weekends because he is cheaper than a Licensed company. Since I want to finish quickly I will hire a day laborer to install the new floor tile since after doing 2 bathrooms I've had enough of tile work for the next 5 years. I could hire GC to do the electric and floor but then I will probably have to pay for permits deal with a potential tax increase and pay more $$. By hiring my guy from coned and a day laborer I don't need permits I save money and keep my taxes low. I would use a licensed contractor but when all said and done I want the cheapest price possible. Now if I was going to add a 8x9 extension like I originally planed I would use a licensed guy to do the framing and exterior and I would do the interior on my own but the tax increase isn't worth it as I really don't need the space.
I hate it when GC justify their insane cost because of their "overhead." That is your problem. Lower it. You want me to pay for your skill as well as for you to get there by paying your gas? that is an insult. You don't have gas to get to your job you, don't have job or a paycheck. GC want to run a business on 100% profit with no cash layout for running the business, and then they wonder why they go on so many "quotes" and don't get the contract. You people seem to think that the average person has no idea how much a nail is and how much you are marking up, just for getting the nail.
You people also seem to think that people don't know that you overbuy the supplies and walk off with it selling it on Craigslist saying, it is let over from a job. No, it is overbuy that you charged the customer for, and walked off with the excess product.
I have overbuy from a roofer who thought he is walking off with the excess. Nope. It is in my garage.
Every time I say to a GC; "you estimate what you need I will go get it," they walk away, "Oh, we don't do it that way." We have special deals we work with for cheaper cost. Oh really? and your price is still 1000% mark up. Oh, I forgot you want me to pay for your insurance, your gas, your workers, your truck insurance etc; your boat and your wifes Escalade.
GC act as though they are doing you a favor for showing up. No, you are getting paid and you are lucky to get a job. I asked a "tile contractor" to put little booties on over the shoes. He never showed up.
He knew he was going to have a problem from me if he did not come across with a professional job.
I like the GC who says, "What's your budget." You throw out a realistic number he never shows up. He just guaged how much he could soak you for. Sorry I have had nothing but hustlers, liars and cheats mostly over the years of owning a home, calling themselves "professional" GC.
I have about as much trust and respect for them as car salesman, and lawyers, which is none.
I dread every time I need a major replacement or repair on the house, because I know I have to go thought 10 hustlers before I find one sane one that is also a "professional."
You people seem mistake people for a cow looking to milk for as much as you can. Just my overall experience and a reality check.
At the end of the day the legal guy is trying to make $$ and stay in business, the unlicensed guy is trying to make a living and the customer is trying to get the best job done for the least amount of money.
I am going to gut my kitchen I am going to start the design and plan in a few weeks. I will do all the measuring order the cabinets on my own and install them. I will go to a place in queens I used for a piece of stone before, I think they are licensed but I did pay cash last time to get a better deal. I will pay them the to measure and install the quartz. I am not moving any walls but need an electrician to move 2 outlets and move them to a new circuit as I don't like to mess with electric. I will use a guy that works for coned that does side jobs on the weekends because he is cheaper than a Licensed company. Since I want to finish quickly I will hire a day laborer to install the new floor tile since after doing 2 bathrooms I've had enough of tile work for the next 5 years. I could hire GC to do the electric and floor but then I will probably have to pay for permits deal with a potential tax increase and pay more $$. By hiring my guy from coned and a day laborer I don't need permits I save money and keep my taxes low. I would use a licensed contractor but when all said and done I want the cheapest price possible. Now if I was going to add a 8x9 extension like I originally planed I would use a licensed guy to do the framing and exterior and I would do the interior on my own but the tax increase isn't worth it as I really don't need the space.
I try to do as much as possible myself. I just think GC are an overall nuisance. I did have the roof done by a contractor. Guy was a major headache, but it is something I can't do myself.
Good luck in some cases people can do a lot of the stuff themselves, with a little help from Utube a lot of patience. Good luck
I hate it when GC justify their insane cost because of their "overhead." That is your problem. Lower it. You want me to pay for your skill as well as for you to get there by paying your gas? that is an insult. You don't have gas to get to your job you, don't have job or a paycheck. GC want to run a business on 100% profit with no cash layout for running the business, and then they wonder why they go on so many "quotes" and don't get the contract. You people seem to think that the average person has no idea how much a nail is and how much you are marking up, just for getting the nail.
You people also seem to think that people don't know that you overbuy the supplies and walk off with it selling it on Craigslist saying, it is let over from a job. No, it is overbuy that you charged the customer for, and walked off with the excess product.
I have overbuy from a roofer who thought he is walking off with the excess. Nope. It is in my garage.
Every time I say to a GC; "you estimate what you need I will go get it," they walk away, "Oh, we don't do it that way." We have special deals we work with for cheaper cost. Oh really? and your price is still 1000% mark up. Oh, I forgot you want me to pay for your insurance, your gas, your workers, your truck insurance etc; your boat and your wifes Escalade.
GC act as though they are doing you a favor for showing up. No, you are getting paid and you are lucky to get a job. I asked a "tile contractor" to put little booties on over the shoes. He never showed up.
He knew he was going to have a problem from me if he did not come across with a professional job.
I like the GC who says, "What's your budget." You throw out a realistic number he never shows up. He just guaged how much he could soak you for. Sorry I have had nothing but hustlers, liars and cheats mostly over the years of owning a home, calling themselves "professional" GC.
I have about as much trust and respect for them as car salesman, and lawyers, which is none.
I dread every time I need a major replacement or repair on the house, because I know I have to go thought 10 hustlers before I find one sane one that is also a "professional."
You people seem mistake people for a cow looking to milk for as much as you can. Just my overall experience and a reality check.
Bryon, Your dissatisfaction with your experience with contractors is understandable and I feel your pain more than you will ever.
I am human, I have a family, no different than anybody else down the block and my profession is residential remodeling contractor, but more importantly I am also a consumer. So I've been ripped off, taken advantage of and everything else consumers experience in this greedy, mean unfair world we live in.
I do agree there are lots of unprofessional contractors and/or contractors that do not know what they are doing for various reasons. Whether it's outright greed, conscious incompetence, foolish consistency, etc.. whatever the reason they are out there and chasing your deposit check.
Believe me I've been screwed by other trades who worked on my projects in the past. I too had to find good plumbers, electricians, central vac, security, drywall, painters etc.. you name it I went through them all over the years.
But isn't this true in all people? There are all kinds out there and as consumers we need to be aware.
I'm giving my input to this thread because I'm in the trenches and I know the business, but I experience bad across all business, not just contractors.
My final note. Again, I know this business inside and out and when somebody underbids me I know for a fact the client is not getting what they think they are getting. I know my numbers and I know what needs to go into a job to bring it to the clients expectations. Believe me most people who rave about a cheap job that came out perfect really don't know what the unseen details are. The job appears good to the eye, but down the road the demons will eventually show themselves. Whether it's a door that is not longer working properly, a crack in a tile, etc..
It is economically impossible to get high quality at a lower price especially when labor is involved. Unfortunately the American consumer has been brainwashed by manufacturers outsourcing products that appear to be of good quality but are nothing more than cheap junk.
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I found that...........
