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What you are calling the "anti jab narrative" comes from people that are actually thinking for themselves. You have it completely backwards.
The majority of people in this country, I suspect, have been vaccinated, and believe it to be a good idea to get vaccinated, but believe it is too soon to mandate others get vaccinated. Or at least a plurality think this way. I wouldn't call this anti-vax. As far as I can tell, no one has espoused the position that people should be mandated to NOT get the vaccine. The most creditable position, which certainly "follows the science", is that people who want the vaccine should get the vaccine, and people who don't want it should not be made to get it - for now. Years down the road, when a much more credible case can be made that the vaccines are safe long term, and for persons of all ages, it can be administered at birth, with a set booster schedule in the pre-school years, if the virus continues to be overly dangerous, which I strongly expect will not be the case ... at which point there probably won't be much or a need or push to make it mandatory, just like there has never been such for the flu virus.
Right now, for a healthy, non-elderly person, "science" indicates that the risk of hospitalization or death is de minimus. Balanced against a small risk that the vaccine itself turns out to be harmful, it is not unreasonable for a person to come out on the side of not getting the vaccine. And please, no one should be claiming that people should be forced to take a vaccine in order to protect the sick and elderly. This has NEVER before been required of people in our society - the flu vaccine being but one example.
You're wrong on the first point and the last point, but I agree with much of what you're saying for the rest... The "anti jab narrative" is the narrative... just like the fear of the virus and the next mutation is the other narrative... it's a mistake to think that any narrative requires that a significant number of people believe in it... you're thinking for yourself when you don't subscribe to a narrative... and you know what I mean when I say that there are people who buy into a narrative... like with the "left control", or "the left this", or "the left that"... those who speak this way are clearly incapable of thinking for themselves... same thing with the "election steal" narrative... just mindless belief in what someone else is telling them what to think... same thing with the "fear the variant" narrative... just being afraid because you're told to be afraid... not thinking for yourself.
Those of us against a vaccine mandate are clearly in the majority... I don't think there is any doubt... it's the rest of the "stuff" that goes along with it where many fall into the anti jab narrative as to why they are against a vaccine mandate... the why matters... like you I am against it because I believe people should choose for themselves... but, so many carry it way too far into conspiracy world aka anti jab narrative... "the agenda"... "the left"... it just makes them sound uneducated.
Lastly, we have very clear vaccine mandates in this country throughout history... register your kid for public school being the perfect example of where you must comply with a vaccine mandate in order to protect public health... this is not new and silly for you pretend otherwise.
You're wrong on the first point and the last point, but I agree with much of what you're saying for the rest... The "anti jab narrative" is the narrative... just like the fear of the virus and the next mutation is the other narrative... it's a mistake to think that any narrative requires that a significant number of people believe in it... you're thinking for yourself when you don't subscribe to a narrative... and you know what I mean when I say that there are people who buy into a narrative... like with the "left control", or "the left this", or "the left that"... those who speak this way are clearly incapable of thinking for themselves... same thing with the "election steal" narrative... just mindless belief in what someone else is telling them what to think... same thing with the "fear the variant" narrative... just being afraid because you're told to be afraid... not thinking for yourself.
Those of us against a vaccine mandate are clearly in the majority... I don't think there is any doubt... it's the rest of the "stuff" that goes along with it where many fall into the anti jab narrative as to why they are against a vaccine mandate... the why matters... like you I am against it because I believe people should choose for themselves... but, so many carry it way too far into conspiracy world aka anti jab narrative... "the agenda"... "the left"... it just makes them sound uneducated.
Lastly, we have very clear vaccine mandates in this country throughout history... register your kid for public school being the perfect example of where you must comply with a vaccine mandate in order to protect public health... this is not new and silly for you pretend otherwise.
The vaccine mandate for children/schools are all for vaccines that have been used for decades and have been proven both safe (both in the short term and long term) and bullet proof in terms of preventing infection (in large part because they don't address upper respiratory vaccines). That is why they exist, and why 99% or people don't object. But don't kid yourself, it is almost always because people don't want their own kid getting sick.
Even when these vaccines were first "mandated", they had been used for years and shown to be safe and reliable. None of them became mandated within a year of invention or first approval. If, if, if, after several years have elapsed the covid vaccine is shown to be harmless (likely in my opinion) and still very very necessary (unlikely) than I and many others will say "ok, let's now mandate it".
As for the silly "narrative" point, you are conflating "narrative" with not thinking for yourself. I, and millions of others, think for ourselves. The fact that a "narrative" exists overlapping with what I think for myself, does not mean that I must not have thought for myself. Just because Tucker Carlson or Rachael Maddow arrive at the same conclusion I do does not mean that I don't think for myself. Indeed, the entire concept of a "narrative" is just silly. It's like "follow the science" - an inexact and useless term that doesn't actually describe anything real or concrete.
The vaccine mandate for children/schools are all for vaccines that have been used for decades and have been proven both safe (both in the short term and long term) and bullet proof in terms of preventing infection (in large part because they don't address upper respiratory vaccines). That is why they exist, and why 99% or people don't object. But don't kid yourself, it is almost always because people don't want their own kid getting sick.
Even when these vaccines were first "mandated", they had been used for years and shown to be safe and reliable. None of them became mandated within a year of invention or first approval. If, if, if, after several years have elapsed the covid vaccine is shown to be harmless (likely in my opinion) and still very very necessary (unlikely) than I and many others will say "ok, let's now mandate it".
As for the silly "narrative" point, you are conflating "narrative" with not thinking for yourself. I, and millions of others, think for ourselves. The fact that a "narrative" exists overlapping with what I think for myself, does not mean that I must not have thought for myself. Just because Tucker Carlson or Rachael Maddow arrive at the same conclusion I do does not mean that I don't think for myself. Indeed, the entire concept of a "narrative" is just silly. It's like "follow the science" - an inexact and useless term that doesn't actually describe anything real or concrete.
Moore's Law and govt deregulation like "Warp Speed" and threatening the labor market with the Defense Production Act is why safety/efficacy is irrelevant to the "used for decades" (untrue when they started) and "shown to be safe" (because that data +/- matches current vax data so it's a red herring all day long).
Science hasn't just stood around twiddling it's thumbs since polio. Give them the green light and tax incentives and take away the lobbyists that back cancer treatment over cures and aisles of cold and flu meds over vaccines and own congress. Oh yeah, and eat a salad is still the best advice on LICD forum in ages.
Science hasn't just stood around twiddling it's thumbs since polio. Give them the green light and tax incentives and take away the lobbyists that back cancer treatment over cures and aisles of cold and flu meds over vaccines and own congress. Oh yeah, and eat a salad is still the best advice on LICD forum in ages.
I don't think you understand how science is done, or at least paid for. Let's put it this way, if there is no chance of making money from it either in the private sector or academia it goes nowhere, unless you can finagle a grant from the NIH or NSF. Science is really expensive and usually doesn't pay for itself in the end, except for those magic times when something a big company sees promise in just so happens to run into a big event that will make boat loads of cash.
I don't think you understand how science is done, or at least paid for. Let's put it this way, if there is no chance of making money from it either in the private sector or academia it goes nowhere, unless you can finagle a grant from the NIH or NSF. Science is really expensive and usually doesn't pay for itself in the end, except for those magic times when something a big company sees promise in just so happens to run into a big event that will make boat loads of cash.
huh? You tracking big pharma's profits for the last few decades?! I didn't realize they weren't making money. There is nothing BUT money to be made in science/tech. From AI to protein synthesis, academia is cute, but a half decade behind. It's private investment (venture capital) moving the needle. Guv usually SLOWS development. In the case of recent vaccines, they didn't. We took the handcuffs off and they did what they do when money is in the air. It doesn't make the vax less safe (the point of the post) as data bears out. Not sure how the rest relates to my post.
Moore's Law and govt deregulation like "Warp Speed" and threatening the labor market with the Defense Production Act is why safety/efficacy is irrelevant to the "used for decades" (untrue when they started) and "shown to be safe" (because that data +/- matches current vax data so it's a red herring all day long).
Science hasn't just stood around twiddling it's thumbs since polio. Give them the green light and tax incentives and take away the lobbyists that back cancer treatment over cures and aisles of cold and flu meds over vaccines and own congress. Oh yeah, and eat a salad is still the best advice on LICD forum in ages.
You are not understanding. None of the "traditional" vaccines were mandated so soon after they were first established. Of course, every vaccine was brand new at one point. But none were mandated until they had aged quite a bit.
Your word salad in the first paragraph doesn't make any sense - Moore's law relates to computer processing. Sure, advancements in technology and government help can get us to a vaccine quicker now than in years past, but such can not ever be a substitute for the passage of time and what such tells us in terms of long term safety on actual human beings who take the shot. So what if a bunch of computer nerds can now design vaccines in a matter of days. It is still true that whatever they design is untested on humans in the long term until it is actually testes on humans in the long term.
Polio, as you mentioned, and diseases like the measles are very different in nature than COVID/Flu/cold-producing viruses. The former are much more of a zero-sum game. If you have the vaccine, you ain't getting the disease, and if you get the disease, you have a real problem on your hands. Viruses of the COVID/Flu family present situations where you are still likely to get it at some point even if you have the vaccine, and with or without the vaccine, you are very likely to suffer but very short term and minor symptoms. This difference makes intelligent people understandably cautious about taking a vaccine that is brand spanking new, no matter how far along our knowledge base has improved since the 1950s. The juice is just not worth the squeeze at this point for certain people, and that is not irrational.
huh? You tracking big pharma's profits for the last few decades?! I didn't realize they weren't making money. There is nothing BUT money to be made in science/tech. From AI to protein synthesis, academia is cute, but a half decade behind. It's private investment (venture capital) moving the needle. Guv usually SLOWS development. In the case of recent vaccines, they didn't. We took the handcuffs off and they did what they do when money is in the air. It doesn't make the vax less safe (the point of the post) as data bears out. Not sure how the rest relates to my post.
This is where you are fundamentally failing (I think, because your writing style is a bit messy). How the f--k do you know how safe these vaccines are in the long term? We will all know eventually, but no one knows for sure as of yet. As I have already noted, this virus is simply not dangerous enough, and the vaccine not effective enough, for many rational people to jump right in with both feet at this time. This is not unreasonable, and we certainly, in both the public and private sphere, should not be forcing shots on people at this time. When should we? Its hard to say, but I don't think we will ever get there, because this virus will morph itself into yet another common-cold inducing virus before its long term safety is proven in the eyes of many - which will render the whole mandate-question into a big fat "never mind".
This is where you are fundamentally failing (I think, because your writing style is a bit messy). How the f--k do you know how safe these vaccines are in the long term? We will all know eventually, but no one knows for sure as of yet. As I have already noted, this virus is simply not dangerous enough, and the vaccine not effective enough, for many rational people to jump right in with both feet at this time. This is not unreasonable, and we certainly, in both the public and private sphere, should not be forcing shots on people at this time. When should we? Its hard to say, but I don't think we will ever get there, because this virus will morph itself into yet another common-cold inducing virus before its long term safety is proven in the eyes of many - which will render the whole mandate-question into a big fat "never mind".
We wouldn't have to force shots on anyone if we were not in the dysfunctional civic state we're in. All these armchair polisci and virolgy wizards didn't exist just a few years ago, let alone when many vax's they take without batting an eye were mandated. They didn't ask, they weren't told. Efficacy was for eggheads with letters after their names. Jabs were civic pride and duty. That kind of thing has long since left the lexicon of American life. We're a nation in decline clinging to some faded "revolutionary" values that are so twisted it's comical. We eat and breathe toxic crap but worry about a vaccine. We scream "we're the best" for fast tracking a vax then "we're patriots" for not taking it. Can't make this stuff up. We're indebted, addicted, obese, mentally ill, declining by every quality of life stat (including life expectancy) so forgive me if I roll my eyes at the zillion pages of "vax bad, mask bad, hoax, not so serious, lib this, con that, Trump this, Biden that, Obama the other." This topic isn't just the same few posters beating a dead horse, it's beating it, shocking it back to life, riding it in the Preakness and then beating it to death again! No one is learning anything new. No one's mind is being changed. It has in fact, driven good forum regulars away. #sad
We wouldn't have to force shots on anyone if we were not in the dysfunctional civic state we're in. All these armchair polisci and virolgy wizards didn't exist just a few years ago, let alone when many vax's they take without batting an eye were mandated. They didn't ask, they weren't told. Efficacy was for eggheads with letters after their names. Jabs were civic pride and duty. That kind of thing has long since left the lexicon of American life. We're a nation in decline clinging to some faded "revolutionary" values that are so twisted it's comical. We eat and breathe toxic crap but worry about a vaccine. We scream "we're the best" for fast tracking a vax then "we're patriots" for not taking it. Can't make this stuff up. We're indebted, addicted, obese, mentally ill, declining by every quality of life stat (including life expectancy) so forgive me if I roll my eyes at the zillion pages of "vax bad, mask bad, hoax, not so serious, lib this, con that, Trump this, Biden that, Obama the other." This topic isn't just the same few posters beating a dead horse, it's beating it, shocking it back to life, riding it in the Preakness and then beating it to death again! No one is learning anything new. No one's mind is being changed. It has in fact, driven good forum regulars away. #sad
huh? You tracking big pharma's profits for the last few decades?! I didn't realize they weren't making money. There is nothing BUT money to be made in science/tech. From AI to protein synthesis, academia is cute, but a half decade behind. It's private investment (venture capital) moving the needle. Guv usually SLOWS development. In the case of recent vaccines, they didn't. We took the handcuffs off and they did what they do when money is in the air. It doesn't make the vax less safe (the point of the post) as data bears out. Not sure how the rest relates to my post.
Tell that to the scientists and researchers who go begging for grant money. You really don't understand how that world works.
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