Will LI go all electric? (Roslyn, Charlotte: Home Depot, income, living in)
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Well, yes. Unfortunately people were saying that change was NOT necessary even a couple of years ago. These are the consequences. We ran out of time to do it better. Too bad.
Don't sweat it so much. Here is what the climate change believers don't know or don't talk about.
1. Most prognostications of dire results are at least a century away, most are two centuries in the future. Ignore the Scientific American and NYTimes articles, those are click-bait.
2. They think the earth as a bio-entity has no way to mitigate the effects of climate change. Wrong! There are 100s of biological models that suggest the bio-mass of earth will increase with the increase of atmospheric CO2, ameliorating some of its effect.
3. They think the free market has no way to mitigate the effects of climate change. Wrong! Flood insurance, coastal walls, increase of fossil fuel costs - all will promote better choices by consumers without govt interference.
4. The world only has 50-100 years of extractable carbon at current rates.
5. The relationship between CO2 density and temperature change is logarithmic with a slope of 2. This fact is non-controversial. If you accept that the earth's temp has increased by 1-1.5C over the past 100 years we would need to burn 2X the amount of the previous century to increase the temp another 1-1.5C. Not going to happen! See #4 above.
Per Wikipedia, (and I didn't check the footnotes to see where they sourced their information):
"Greenhouse gas emissions from human activities strengthen the greenhouse effect, contributing to climate change. Most is carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels: coal, oil, and natural gas. The largest emitters include coal in China and large oil and gas companies."
Setting aside greenhouse gasses for the moment, my prior post spoke to toxic chemicals which are used in the production of plastics and the like, and the emissions produced from manufacturing said products. There's no way that the West can be vilified for polluting in such a fashion.
Second, citizens of other nations live in poverty, therefore their lifestyle is less consumptive.
Second, citizens of other nations live in poverty, therefore their lifestyle is less consumptive.
Is that a lifestyle that you'd like to adopt?
Do you know how selfish this sounds?
The way we live is NOT sustainable. There's no way around it.
No, switching to a sustainable way of living will not force us into poverty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmrlongisland
1. Most prognostications of dire results are at least a century away, most are two centuries in the future.
What's your point? Why worry if we won't have to see it and others will have to clean up the mess?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmrlongisland
2. They think the earth as a bio-entity has no way to mitigate the effects of climate change. Wrong! There are 100s of biological models that suggest the bio-mass of earth will increase with the increase of atmospheric CO2, ameliorating some of its effect.
You're saying that because CO2 makes trees bigger we won't have to worry about climate change?
That's absolutely true and it would work just fine, if we left any trees alive in the world instead of replacing them for agriculture.
3. They think the free market has no way to mitigate the effects of climate change. Wrong! Flood insurance, coastal walls, increase of fossil fuel costs - all will promote better choices by consumers without govt interference.
Why would fossil fuel costs increase? There's no way free market will mitigate the effects of climate change. And quite honestly I wouldn't dare to risk my children's future based on what corporations think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmrlongisland
4. The world only has 50-100 years of extractable carbon at current rates.
"
So?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmrlongisland
5. The relationship between CO2 density and temperature change is logarithmic with a slope of 2. This fact is non-controversial. If you accept that the earth's temp has increased by 1-1.5C over the past 100 years we would need to burn 2X the amount of the previous century to increase the temp another 1-1.5C. Not going to happen! See #4 above.
None of the top countries on this list manufactures the products we consume. And China is far below. As you can see WE are the gross polluters. On the other hand, Biden luckily and finally is bringing production to the US, creating jobs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ons_per_capita
When I see posts like this I seriously start to think you are just trolling and you don’t actually believe a word of what you are saying.
What's your point? Why worry if we won't have to see it and others will have to clean up the mess?
The point is we do not NEED to drastically change our lifestyle to accommodate possibilities 100-200 years in the future. Seems reasonable, No?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpepelepeu
You're saying that because CO2 makes trees bigger we won't have to worry about climate change?
That's absolutely true and it would work just fine, if we left any trees alive in the world instead of replacing them for agriculture.
No, actually trees at full growth will contribute less to CO2 mitigation.
There are a whole range of biologics that will contribute more - peat, grasses, algae ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpepelepeu
Why would fossil fuel costs increase? There's no way free market will mitigate the effects of climate change. And quite honestly I wouldn't dare to risk my children's future based on what corporations think.
Supply and demand, as fossil fuels get scarce the price will go up, No? Didn't we all experience a doubling of gas prices resulting from a small reduction in refinery capacity?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpepelepeu
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmrlongisland
4. The world only has 50-100 years of extractable carbon at current rates.
So?
It's most likely fossil fuels will either be unextractable or too expensive before any of the dire climate change prognostications kick in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpepelepeu
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmrlongisland
5.The relationship between CO2 density and temperature change is logarithmic with a slope of 2. This fact is non-controversial. If you accept that the earth's temp has increased by 1-1.5C over the past 100 years we would need to burn 2X the amount of the previous century to increase the temp another 1-1.5C. Not going to happen!
This makes no sense whatsoever. Sorry.
The math is the math. Thank God it doesn't need to make sense to you for it to be true.
But, I'll try. All data can be had at this site. https://ourworldindata.org/fossil-fuels
Since 1900 global consumption is about 6.5M-TWh, a really big number.
To increase the earth's temp 1-1.5C MORE we need to burn 13M-TWh, 2X the amount since 1900!
At our current rate of consumption, 135k-TWh, it would ~100 years to increase the earth's temp ANOTHER 1-1.5C.
Given the fact that the global increase of fossil fuels is in the low single digits, it's safe to say that the earth will not have a market for extractable fossil fuels before all climate change hell breaks loose!
So, I don't worry about the future generations. They'll be just fine!
@dickonic: yeah, no. Not trolling. You live in a flat earth. I live in a spherical one.
I was disappointed seeing this: you lose your moral highground by responding like that.
Back to climate change: I showed you a source which stated that China is, by far and away, the largest contributor to greenhouse gasses. And it makes sense, since they're a manufacturing powerhouse.
The other thing is that dense development would bring about the destruction of trees, and tax our aquifers.
My point is that going to one extreme or the other isn't necessarily beneficial.
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