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Houston definitely has a large population of people barely scraping by as well. When I taught in Southwest Houston, I regularly got kids who moved in from California and I always wondered why if they moved from a super expensive place like LA, they would end up in a slummy place like Alief. So they lost the scenery and were still scraping by. Odd, but maybe they came from a part of LA more run down than SW Houston which seems unlikely...
SW Houston isn't run down and Alief isn't really SW Houston. SW Houston is over by 59 and Bellaire. Alief is a tiny piece of unincorporated area (along with Mission Bend next door). The only areas that you could even say are run down in SW Houston are many of the apartment complexes (some in the process of being torn down there). The single family neighborhoods around these apartments are actually nice and have been rising in value due to their location.
In Houston at least there is very little civic involvement. It's more about church and family.
Where did you live in Houston? The right wing suburbs? This statement right here couldn't be further from the truth. It may not be as much as LA, but to say it's more about church and family is false.
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Originally Posted by BarcelonaFan
Dude I know Houston in and out and did everything there. It's only live and let live and eclectic inside the loop. It's like a night and day difference between Montrose, Rice Village, Midtown, and Downtown, AND the suburban wasteland of the outer loop. If you in the Heights, Museum District, Galleria and upper Kirby I could totally see loving Houston. Heck I even love the area around the wards near downtown. I used to eat at the reggae hut all the time but I felt confined to the same area, doing the same things.
I don't think you do. You say it's only "live and let live" inside the loop, but what you really mean to say is that the inner loop is just the most liberal area of Houston. The rest of the city is pretty libertarian. You do what you want on your own property, as long as you're not hurting anyone or have a liquor/porn shop next door to a school. Now there are certain neighborhoods in the city that have certain deed restrictions that don't allow you do to that. You should have probably ventured a little more to the west because there is plenty of things to do over near Chinatown and in the Southwest.
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Also the stuff that happens in LA only happens every once in a while in Houston. I remember having to wait months for a really good house DJ to play at a venue or club. My favorite parties were all monthlies. Here in LA I find that every week.
I am not trying to knock Houston as some Podunk town cus its not buy its overhyped in the media and Houstonians think that they've somehow reached world class status or something.
Well obviously. Look at how much bigger LA is than Houston. LA is in the maturing stages. Houston just started going through puberty. The offerings in this city have increased ten fold since even 2005. There is a reason why large sporting events are starting to come to Houston more and more often now. People are discovering that this city is not what a lot of your posters are stereotyping it as.
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Originally Posted by Techwired
Houston easily wins for the city with the biggest inferiority complex. On Houston's best day, it only offers the worst qualities of L.A. -- Congestion, Sprawl, and Terrible Air Quality.
Talking like someone who has never been to Houston.
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L.A. is home to the motion picture and entertainment industry, top innovation hub, the only true Mediterranean climate in North America along with O.C./S.D., Top Rated higher education; Caltech, UCLA, USC, Venture Capital $$$ and Technology leader-- Incredible beaches from Malibu to San Clemente - Mountains and the Desert -- Dodgers - Angels - Lakers -- Clippers -- Disneyland & Mickey Mouse. LA is a home to the beautiful and talented. A dynamic progressive and diversified culture second to none.
LA is pretty good at innovation, but if you think Houston isn't (with NASA and all those awesome new technologies the energy companies are constantly coming up with) then you are seriously mistaken. LA definitely has better universities. Houston really only has Rice. Texas as a whole lacks in the upper education department.
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Houston's proper place has always been the forgotten fat kid in the back of the class who's constantly ignored, completely lacks social skills and is so desperate for attention and acceptance but nobody seems to care. Houston was recently ranked the second most boring city in the nation and appeals to the lowest common denominator - Fattest, Dumbest, Most unbanked, along with the lowest personal credit scores for large cities along with Dallas. Texas has the highest percentage of uninsured in the nation and scored 38th out of 50th on the Human Development Index, really not surprising with all of its uninsured residents, religious nuts, and large number of rednecks roaming the Gulf Coast. Houston is still a dirty cowtown with lousy entertainment options, endless sprawl, high crime rates, and oppressive humidity. It's really no wonder people from outside of Texas have such a negative perception of Houston.
No, what Houston is is that shy fat kid in the back of the class back in school with no friends. Then the fat kid slimmed up, got taller, and no the kids in the class that use to make fun of the fat kid are hating because the fat kid is starting to look better than them. LA went through the same thing when it was first growing as NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran looked down upon the place, but it kept growing and no one in LA gave a **** what people in other cities were saying. So yeah, go ahead and keep hating and posting crap articles like the Men's Fitness one. They rank fattest cities by the amount of gyms versus restaurants. Such a great way to look at it.
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Originally Posted by BarcelonaFan
Like I said I think the hype behind Houston by the biz rags is just to promote the texas model of doing business which is favorable to wealthy conservatives. It's no wonder rags like The Economist play it as though CA is some failed experiment while Texas is the ideal state to promote as a model for the rest of the country.
No, it's because Houston keeps adding so many jobs. There is no conspriracy behind it. If Los Angeles was adding as many jobs as Houston then maybe there would be some articles about LA instead. There is a reason why LA (and the state really) is only growing because of natural increase. Cali's population would be declining if only migration was taken into account.
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Peel back the layers of Forbes BS and you will find a mess in the making. Poverty is up in Houston. Why? Supposedly its a city with ample growth so why is it seeing poverty increases and higher crime? Because the benefits aren't reaching everyone. The ones reaping the benefits are professionals and high skilled workers. The rest have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps with horrible social and city services. If it wasn't for federal help that state would be a third world hellhole.
No, you have it confused. Poverty in the SUBURBS are rising because people are being priced out of the city of Houston. Same thing is happening in LA and almost every city in America. Europe has long been this way. Also, last time I checked, per capita income has been rising in Houston and is either the highest or second highest when adjusted for COL. Texas does need to get better with social services. There is no denying there.
When I brought this up in the Houston forum the only response I got was "so what, those people need to get in on the gravy train or suffer". They didn't mind the major pockets of high crime no mans lands as long as HPD and Harris County Sherriff remained brutal and they're safe in gated communities, gentrified inner loop hoods and white flight suburbia.
Really the media hype is another attempt by Forbes to push another one of these so called "economic miracles" where business and the professional class are doing great while the average working class stiff is getting by or doing worse, and there is this sizable underclass of hard hit ppl.
There are pockets of high crime in EVERY major city. You continue to act like this is some Houston phenomena. The working class is doing just fine in Houston. Yes, the income gap is rising because the professionals are making more money due to the lucrative industries in Houston, but that doesn't mean the poor are getting poorer. They are just moving to new areas and finally getting that suburban life. These areas a replacing where they use to live:
I wish Los Angeles had Houston's job growth, income growth, unemployment rate and affordable housing. Compare their average incomes against their housing prices. It makes no sense as to why LA's housing prices are so much higher.
Actually I lived in West U for several years and know the entire metro area extremely well.
Houston looks like its been pummeled by an ugly stick from head to toe. The city of Houston is a complete basket case, along with it's socially conservative surrounding counties that completely lack any culture, vibrancy or class. Most Houstonians in general are not really very cultured or even interesting, outside of Southern culture, most of them are not well traveled, especially compared to the vast majority of residents on both coasts. They're a good amount of Houstonians who don't travel outside of Texas or the South in general, have never visited abroad or experienced anything outside of Texas. In fact many people from Houston have never been North of Plano or South of Corpus Christi.
Houston doesn't have much of a profile like other U.S. cities (L.A., S.F, NYC, Chicago) and it lacks history, character, & any real sense of itself -- The humidity in Houston from May through the middle of October is extreme and downright oppressive, it feels like you're wearing a 20 pound wet blanket over your head in the summer months especially compared to L.A. which has a almost perfect climate, minus the inland valley areas. Much of Houston's economy is based on the oil, gas and petrochemical industry, which is extremely cyclical, and if that bubble bursts, many of its transplant will put Houston in the rear view mirror for good. Houston has a huge income disparity problem, one of the worst in the nation, and the overall job growth has primarily been in manufacturing and low paying hourly wage retail or Wal-Mart type jobs -- Houston has the lowest percentage of its twenty-five and older population with a high school diploma in the country.
The city and coastal areas around Houston reek like oil and petrochemical refineries anytime you get an onshore wind blowing in from the Gulf during the summer months -- Houston is as pedestrian unfriendly as it gets and looks and feels like a VERY ugly city that at times resembles a big third world swamp, full of dirty oil and petrochemical refineries, massive congestion, bombed out looking hoods, endless sprawl, and generic looking strip malls. A sweltering concrete mess with little natural beauty, culture or zoning regulations but number one in the amount of toxic chemicals released into water. Houston area surface roads are extremely underfunded, and full of nasty potholes, all while the city still has an abysmal, almost non existent public transportation system --even worse than L.A.
Houston also has the distinction of regaining its title once again as "America's Fattest City" and once you leave the nicer parts of the metro, it seems that half of the place is overrun by crunked out thug gangs, while the other half is full of socially conservative right wingers, religious nuts, and Rednecks driving their jacked up Texas edition trucks decked out in Wal-Mart camo gear. Many areas on the north and east side of Houston, just 20 min outside the city are as backwards as Little Rock and as Redneck as Alabama with tons of knee-jerk ultra-conservatives, gun nuts and gulf coast trash. A good amount of voters in Houston support our crude half-wit dunce Governor, Rick Perry. Gov. Goodhair has been Governor of Texas for the past 13 years and has been elected to office three times by Texas voters. Remember that Texas is where separation of church and state is a myth and Gov. Perry loves to run the our public schools like bible camps.
Houston experiences largest growth of poor population in American metros
Of course LA housing prices are beyond ridiculous. There is no reason for it other than some excuse about there being so many people for so few spots driving the price up. I mean it's just gouging in my opinion and other management companies follow suit. If you meet a rich old hippie who owns property, he will proly rent out his one bedroom apt for well under the market price and not bat an eye. I agree that LA has an affordable housing problem. Also wages do not match up to COL at all. You'd think they would and lots of people move out here thinking this myth but soon find out that wages in LA really suck. Unemployment and finding a job are two things I feel sorry for anyone in LA going through right now. That is like finding a needle in a haystack. You can easily find scam jobs and telemarketing positions that pay crap but there is such a high turnaround it's not even worth the time lost working there for the two weeks before you realize it and jump ship.
In this regard, Houston wins by a long mile. I remember during the years before the crash that I could easily just quit a job and could find another one easily.
Also, in LA I've noticed they check your references for the smallest jobs. I've just never heard of someone actually calling references. I've heard about long drawn out interviews and sometimes two interviews for some of these scam jobs and lower level entry work. I mean the hoops you have to jump through these days to work at a grocery store!
Like I said I think the hype behind Houston by the biz rags is just to promote the texas model of doing business which is favorable to wealthy conservatives. It's no wonder rags like The Economist play it as though CA is some failed experiment while Texas is the ideal state to promote as a model for the rest of the country.
Peel back the layers of Forbes BS and you will find a mess in the making. Poverty is up in Houston. Why? Supposedly its a city with ample growth so why is it seeing poverty increases and higher crime? Because the benefits aren't reaching everyone. The ones reaping the benefits are professionals and high skilled workers. The rest have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps with horrible social and city services. If it wasn't for federal help that state would be a third world hellhole.
When I brought this up in the Houston forum the only response I got was "so what, those people need to get in on the gravy train or suffer". They didn't mind the major pockets of high crime no mans lands as long as HPD and Harris County Sherriff remained brutal and they're safe in gated communities, gentrified inner loop hoods and white flight suburbia.
Really the media hype is another attempt by Forbes to push another one of these so called "economic miracles" where business and the professional class are doing great while the average working class stiff is getting by or doing worse, and there is this sizable underclass of hard hit ppl.
Excellent post...but how dare you tell the truth about Houston, and its false claims of "economic miracles"
Actually I lived in West U for several years and know the entire metro area extremely well.
Houston looks like its been pummeled by an ugly stick from head to toe. The city of Houston is a complete basket case, along with it's socially conservative surrounding counties that completely lack any culture, vibrancy or class. Most Houstonians in general are not really very cultured or even interesting, outside of Southern culture, most of them are not well traveled, especially compared to the vast majority of residents on both coasts. They're a good amount of Houstonians who don't travel outside of Texas or the South in general, have never visited abroad or experienced anything outside of Texas. In fact many people from Houston have never been North of Plano or South of Corpus Christi.
Houston doesn't have much of a profile like other U.S. cities (L.A., S.F, NYC, Chicago) and it lacks history, character, & any real sense of itself -- The humidity in Houston from May through the middle of October is extreme and downright oppressive, it feels like you're wearing a 20 pound wet blanket over your head in the summer months especially compared to L.A. which has a almost perfect climate, minus the inland valley areas. Much of Houston's economy is based on the oil, gas and petrochemical industry, which is extremely cyclical, and if that bubble bursts, many of its transplant will put Houston in the rear view mirror for good. Houston has a huge income disparity problem, one of the worst in the nation, and the overall job growth has primarily been in manufacturing and low paying hourly wage retail or Wal-Mart type jobs -- Houston has the lowest percentage of its twenty-five and older population with a high school diploma in the country.
The city and coastal areas around Houston reek like oil and petrochemical refineries anytime you get an onshore wind blowing in from the Gulf during the summer months -- Houston is as pedestrian unfriendly as it gets and looks and feels like a VERY ugly city that at times resembles a big third world swamp, full of dirty oil and petrochemical refineries, massive congestion, bombed out looking hoods, endless sprawl, and generic looking strip malls. A sweltering concrete mess with little natural beauty, culture or zoning regulations but number one in the amount of toxic chemicals released into water. Houston area surface roads are extremely underfunded, and full of nasty potholes, all while the city still has an abysmal, almost non existent public transportation system --even worse than L.A.
Houston also has the distinction of regaining its title once again as "America's Fattest City" and once you leave the nicer parts of the metro, it seems that half of the place is overrun by crunked out thug gangs, while the other half is full of socially conservative right wingers, religious nuts, and Rednecks driving their jacked up Texas edition trucks decked out in Wal-Mart camo gear. Many areas on the north and east side of Houston, just 20 min outside the city are as backwards as Little Rock and as Redneck as Alabama with tons of knee-jerk ultra-conservatives, gun nuts and gulf coast trash. A good amount of voters in Houston support our crude half-wit dunce Governor, Rick Perry. Gov. Goodhair has been Governor of Texas for the past 13 years and has been elected to office three times by Texas voters. Remember that Texas is where separation of church and state is a myth and Gov. Perry loves to run the our public schools like bible camps.
Houston experiences largest growth of poor population in American metros
You too are blowing the Houston myths out of the water. Yes, I noticed all of that too. The job growth is centered around the manufacturing high skilled but lower than the average work in oil, gas and defense. The next big chunk is low wage retail and service sector, and the next growth is professional managerial. But the majority work in the first two camps.
The poverty is growing in the run down burbs and hoods so I do not know what Trae the Truth was trying to prove with his article. I said that the northside and other wasteland burbs on the outskirts of Houston are no mans land of poverty, crime and run down neighborhoods.
Los Angeles is no angel either, there is a huge gap between rich and poor here too. LA County is one of the worst in the nation for income disparity. The vast majority of Angelenos are working class, unemployment is higher, wages do not even begin to match COL, etc. But, I applaud the city for not letting it sink into the ocean. I am surprised by how it's been able to not fall into rampant crime and riots and all sorts of havoc. I think it's just that the city itself maintains it and does a good job of making sure people are somewhat taken care of even though the social services are still abysmal.
But imagine living in Houston where the social, state and city services are even worse than LA and hardly exist. Imagine just straight up living on your own wages. If it wasn't for the Federal Govt, Texas would be third world. All of those idiots that want to break apart from the US are just asking for trouble.
ouch that post from techwired was brutal! lol. just fyi, may had very pleasant weather- a cold front even blew in 2nd week of may, temps were 70s upper 40s. weather can be bad jun-sep but again there was a bunch of exaggeration in that post as you maybe had a bad experience living there. right now, to me, houston is still in that transformation stage. the city changes each day with growth still to come with its core spreading out to the burbs. i think there will be a point that bubble will pop as prices and the increasingly amount of people moving can only handle so much.
many cities once you leave the core turns a little country. i remember working out in san bernardino and the I.E. and a few people talking to me that sounded very country. and of course everybody knows Bakersfield.
Techie I agree with you except for the criteria for the dumbest city.
Also I have always found the ppl in Texas to be willfully ignorant but not totally stupid. I've met a lot of people who were highly skilled at various things and interested in a variety of things but it was the culture, religion and super traditional conservative beliefs that keeps a lot of them from expanding their interests.
To me the native Californian is a bit "dumb" (to uttetly generalize) you could say but genuinely willing to learn new things, listen and expand their minds. I've noticed a lot are also good natured and a bit new agey with slight superstitious beliefs. They're humble enough to admit they do not know what you're talking about but a Texan is stubborn and will tell you you're wrong but cannot explain why they just know you're wrong. They're humbly arrogant.
You bring several good points, but I find that when many stubborn Texans are made self-aware of their arrogance and stereotypes does their false Texas sized bravado increase along with their socialized ignorance.
Dubya's Daddy, HW Bush wife Barbara wrote an op-ed for the Houston Chronicle pointing out that Texas ranks 47th in the nation in literacy, 49th in verbal SAT scores and 46th in math scores. In light of these horrible statistics, Barb Bush asked why Texas can afford to cut the number of teachers, while increasing class sizes, eliminate scholarships for underprivileged students and close down community colleges with all of the excess cash TX supposedly has. Gov. Rick has cut the state's education funding consistently and helped make things worse by reducing school property taxes, Perry would love to homeschool every kid from 5-18yrs of age with a bible and a whip -- Rick's disdain for public education is known throughout the state. Perry also stole 3.2 billion in federal stimulus education dollars from our kids edu fund for non-education purposes so he could strut around and boast about his balanced budget. This trend will continue as the anti-education, anti-arts, anti-science TX Ted Cruz lead tea party seems to be gaining momentum here and taking over more of this already socially backward state.
One of my biggest problems with Houston is that one really has to go beyond subjectivity to complete homerism and ignorance to champion it as a great city to live.
I agree with everything you said Techie. If you're a liberal progressive fellow it can be a hell on earth fighting with rabid social conservative nutbars who hate the sight of a yellow school bus. I just do not get how they think that Houston is such a great place to live. It's amazing what a bunch of PR fluff and limited growth can do. They don't realize they're creating a recipe for uneven economic development.
Los Angeles with all of its problems still amazes me how they've managed to maintain the city. Houston has a lot of shiny new development but contrast it with the relative underclass beneath the surface. It's night and day.
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