why is MA so expensive? (Boston, New Bedford: fit in, to live, zoning)

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by wolfgang239

Did you parents give you a "small loan" to get started or something? This hot take is possibly one of the most out of touch things I've ever read on here. And that is an achievement.

Just live with their parents? Move to Lawrence? Not everyone grew up with the level of privilege you seem to view as normal. Unfortunately very common in this area.

yep. spot on

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Gotta watch out for those promiscuous spendthrift Austrian monarchs.


The day I graduated from college, I moved to a place with better economic opportunity. I didn't expect someone to magically create employment and affordable housing in my West Portugal home town for me. Other than the bottom 20% where the lack of portability of the safety net locks them down in Massachusetts and preventing labor mobility, the rest of us are free to move to the place that presents the best opportunity.

That's good for personal advice, I've moved away twice now because it was the best thing for me at the time. But if we are talking about as a state, I think it's a poor strategy to continue neglecting the infrastructure and restricting housing development. Just like it's your and my job to look after our own bottom line, it's the state's job to serve and meet those demands.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Gotta watch out for those promiscuous spendthrift Austrian monarchs.


The day I graduated from college, I moved to a place with better economic opportunity. I didn't expect someone to magically create employment and affordable housing in my West Portugal home town for me. Other than the bottom 20% where the lack of portability of the safety net locks them down in Massachusetts and preventing labor mobility, the rest of us are free to move to the place that presents the best opportunity.

The big problem is-realistically that more like the bottom 30-35% which is not acceptable. It cost a lot of money to move. Movers, first last, security etc. Most low-income people would rather stay where there at. If rent goes up and you try to make it work and it doesn't and you want to move then you gotta break the lease which is too expensive for most people.

You have to remember there are people 18-25 just starting out in their adult lives TODAY in 2019, with 2019 real estate prices. Theyre not starting out whenever you did, they dont get to catch up or have planned for the reality of TODAY, the most expensive real estate market this area has ever seen. Lets say here in MA 30% of them come from low income families and most come from moderate income families making less than 70k...what do those kids realistically do and for how long? Most have families they help support, not the other way around. Few, have any credit score to speak of. What are the long standing ramifications of this. We have elderly housing but we dont have young adult housing.

That is why MA has one of the absolute lowest birthrates in the country. Its kind of inhospitable to a huge segment of its native population. Other states ive been to put much more focus on ease of living, making sure kids and families feel comfortable, affordability. I see it in their billboards, the way they orient buildings, their town planning, the free development, the utilitarianism of it all. I see so much less of that in MA and it breaks my heart. Everything is competitive, somewhat pugnacious or ironic, sports team pride rather than state pride, venues and attractions are expected to be either crowded, expensive or difficult to get to if not all three (see Encore), and were all expected to be humbled, and grateful, and feel privileged just to be a part of it all. So much is geared toward the elite, the college students, the transplants. Its disheartening

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

The big problem is-realistically that more like the bottom 30-35% which is not acceptable. It cost a lot of money to move. Movers, first last, security etc. Most low-income people would rather stay where there at. If rent goes up and you try to make it work and it doesn't and you want to move then you gotta break the lease which is too expensive for most people.

You have to remember there are people 18-25 just starting out in their adult lives TODAY in 2019, with 2019 real estate prices. Theyre not starting out whenever you did, they dont get to catch up or have planned for the reality of TODAY, the most expensive real estate market this area has ever seen. Lets say here in MA 30% of them come from low income families and most come from moderate income families making less than 70k...what do those kids realistically do and for how long? Most have families they help support, not the other way around. Few, have any credit score to speak of. What are the long standing ramifications of this. We have elderly housing but we dont have young adult housing.

Who at age 22 uses a mover? My first rental, I borrowed a 4x8 trailer and moved my used college furniture driving my beater car I'd owned through college. The typical 22 year old is doing roommates so the first/last/security is split multiple ways assuming they're not just paying monthly on someone else's lease.


The point is if you're from the Boston metro, complete your education, and can't afford housing, you move to somewhere you can afford the housing on whatever job you manage to land. You're not calling up Allied Van Lines and moving into a luxury condo.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by massnative71

That's good for personal advice, I've moved away twice now because it was the best thing for me at the time. But if we are talking about as a state, I think it's a poor strategy to continue neglecting the infrastructure and restricting housing development. Just like it's your and my job to look after our own bottom line, it's the state's job to serve and meet those demands.

You're not going to get the elite Boston suburbs to zone for high density affordable housing so it's pointless to go there. Won't happen. Ever. There's no room to add lanes to highways and it's incredibly expensive to do so if you try. The only possible solution is to improve commuter rail. If you have infinite parking at the train stations and run 120 mph express trains from 50 miles out, people can live in affordable places and get to work in a reasonable amount of time.

[yellowstatus]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

So much is geared toward the elite, the college students, the transplants. Its disheartening

Wow, BostonBornMassMade and I are in agreement for once. I'm striving to become part of the elite but most of my commentary is light trolling.

There's a huge segment of Cambridge longtime resident homeowners who got theirs and effectively tell newcomers and the young to go pound sand. Attend nearly any city hall meeting and it is dominated by 60+ white homeowners, in a city median age of 31, plurality minority, and largely renters. These homeowners care about tree canopy coverage, quaint neighborhoods, and noise foremost even if it means an entire generation of workers have to commute 1 hour each way to work in Cambridge. I seek to rile people's sense of outrage to fight against these entrenched interests.

[Dm84]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Who at age 22 uses a mover? My first rental, I borrowed a 4x8 trailer and moved my used college furniture driving my beater car I'd owned through college. The typical 22 year old is doing roommates so the first/last/security is split multiple ways assuming they're not just paying monthly on someone else's lease.


The point is if you're from the Boston metro, complete your education, and can't afford housing, you move to somewhere you can afford the housing on whatever job you manage to land. You're not calling up Allied Van Lines and moving into a luxury condo.

You're missing the point. It's not good policy to have a region designed only for the rich and destitute.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Who at age 22 uses a mover? My first rental, I borrowed a 4x8 trailer and moved my used college furniture driving my beater car I'd owned through college. The typical 22 year old is doing roommates so the first/last/security is split multiple ways assuming they're not just paying monthly on someone else's lease.


The point is if you're from the Boston metro, complete your education, and can't afford housing, you move to somewhere you can afford the housing on whatever job you manage to land. You're not calling up Allied Van Lines and moving into a luxury condo.

The movers reference wasnt to the young people necessarily but some may need one i dunno. The people from the bottom 3rd usually dont have cars at a young age tho. They also will struggle to gather roommates if theyre not in college because some will lack employment, lack of credit, there friends will opt to stay at home because its cheaper, threes unforeseen circumstances, some will work in a different area

I tried to get some friends of mine to be roommates with me when i got out of college and went back to Boston-that idea was DEAD for the reasons above. In and out of school due to financial aid issues, parents moving, some had already tried to move and failed, car issues. Boston rents just were too high and landlords could be so selective, its bad. And then up and moving to another state even renting a uhaul, can be somewhat expensive plus first months rent costs. Which for a 2k apartment can be 5k, its tough for 3 young poor folks to pool 5k. Then be able to give another 700 each in a month or so. None of this is impossible of course and plenty people do it.. I was living in worker provided housing with literally 15 roommates, mice and a broken windows to the point it physically rained on my bed during rainstorms. I had to move.

Again-we should ask ourselves what are the long term consequences of such a difficult market? If we ask the lower income people to move to areas we know are hotbeds of social isolation and downward mobility what are we really doing? Were asking young people and vulnerable people to be a part of a market situation we all know is likely to hurt them in the short-term. Theyre being asked to move to the absolute margins AND struggle on top of a host of other issues, when it really doesnt have to be like that...whats that do to us as a state down the road? We cant yet say

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by yellowstatus

Wow, BostonBornMassMade and I are in agreement for once. I'm striving to become part of the elite but most of my commentary is light trolling.

There's a huge segment of Cambridge longtime resident homeowners who got theirs and effectively tell newcomers and the young to go pound sand. Attend nearly any city hall meeting and it is dominated by 60+ white homeowners, in a city median age of 31, plurality minority, and largely renters. These homeowners care about tree canopy coverage, quaint neighborhoods, and noise foremost even if it means an entire generation of workers have to commute 1 hour each way to work in Cambridge. I seek to rile people's sense of outrage to fight against these entrenched interests.

Any town or city hall meeting is white folks 60+ who have the time. Thats why the market and general laws of the state favor those folks. If you were a young minority of any income youd havae to know the odds are stacked against you and your concerns, issues and aspirations/desires genuinely and truly are not as important as the concerns of said people. And take a nother seat behind the transplants and college students (who are mercilessly price-gouged but will tough it out for a 4 year window with mom and dads help).

Most likely, your concerns will never be addressed.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

If you have infinite parking at the train stations and run 120 mph express trains from 50 miles out, people can live in affordable places and get to work in a reasonable amount of time.

If that were to happen, would those places stay affordable?