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If your kid is smart they will do well wherever they do. If they are not smart sending them to Lexington schools isn't going to solve anything.
My guess is most of the people that can afford the expensive towns are smart themselves and end up with smart kids most of the time? thus the unfairness of life.
If BU is the 'worst case', I'd say attending the 'elite' district served the child well - set a high floor.
I sense many on this forum attended elite schools or, at a minimum, well rated undergrad program. I suspect there is a bit of bias which allows them to believe their success, despite having attended a mediocre school district, is easily repeated due to their excellent genes and parenting. I'm not sure the stats bare this out.
Having attended a middling state college from a then top-tier MA district (in terms of testing), I was horrified by the work ethic and base line knowledge of some of my peers. It was quite clear that not all MA high school programs were as rigorous as mine - these kids weren't stupid and many came from wealthier homes than I, but the resources and training they received from districts like Boston or Woburn were obviously lacking. It turns out middling students such as myself were only middling because they were sharing a classroom with Ivy-bound students and some of that work ethic and training did transfer.
Additionally, the large wealthier districts also tend to have richer (both in terms of funds and experience) non-core paths which, at least in my experience, can help bright and determined students find non-traditional career paths. Again, setting a high floor for students who have neither the interest or mind for 'elite' liberal arts schools.
Does this mean parents should prioritize 'elite' over 'very good'? Eh, probably not unless expectations are truly Ivy. Are they likely raising the floor of their child by selecting Winchester over Somerville? Most likely yes.
The issue I see is the childish "Look what I did" mentality. Heck where went to grad school about half the people failed out or dropped out of the program after the intro class. It isn't that hard to learn or understand a subject. When we start going beyond it gets debatable. A cousin of mine put something stupid online that a lineman somehow would make 160K like a college grad. Frankly no lineman on average make that amount, in fact many don't even make half that. Trades are great for job security but unless you actually run a business for it you aren't making nearly as much. There's a huge difference between running a plumbing company and being a plumber.
Some of the issues I see with academia is frankly it isn't looking as much on humanities. HBS for example didn't even have ethics in any classes until the mid 1990s (see Head of the Curve). Furthermore unless a curriculum specifically talks about being accountable to a given board of governance the students can turn ideological and generally incompatible with reality. If you really believe that something MUST happen but have never actually tried to sell the idea to anyone that's a bad sign. At least with social sciences you learn more about human behavior and thinking. let's be honest here folks. Facts are facts. speed=distance/time, density = mass/volume , e=mc2. It isn't that hard. there's no "new math". There's no "secret knowledge". So what makes someone an expert? Putting it together really but that's just basic grad school management content.
Wealth can depend as to where it comes from. Those that inherit it are certainly different from those that earn it. those that earn it can vary as to how much was from capital and how much from labor. Not everyone likes the same things anyway. A colleague of mine I think went to Kellogg and now works at amazon. He does well and has a few kids although his house is much smaller than in the boston area.
A cousin of mine put something stupid online that a lineman somehow would make 160K like a college grad. Frankly no lineman on average make that amount, in fact many don't even make half that. Trades are great for job security but unless you actually run a business for it you aren't making nearly as much. There's a huge difference between running a plumbing company and being a plumber.
As someone in that industry who has done that job you can easily earn that much. It is a tough job and you put in a lot of mandatory overtime. If you are a lineman in MA and aren't making $100k/yr after becoming a journeyman then you are doing something wrong.
I went to a school on this list that bounces around the top 5 and a career like that was never discussed. I actually skipped an opportunity to get in at around age 19 because I figured it was a dead end. The problem is that school #90 on this list is not steering people that direction either, and there are many similar jobs that pay well and just get ignored in favor of the college push. That is a problem that exists across the entire educational system and well beyond the discussion we could try to focus on here.
I'm not sure what the point of your observation is other than it isn't as simple as people make it out on here. Moving to a brownstone in the city doesn't transform your kid into the physical manifestation of a coexist bumper sticker. Moving to fancy top #x town doesn't mean they'll escape your bad parenting and get into Yale. Too many philosophies clashing on here when only you know what is best for your situation.
If your kid is smart they will do well wherever they do. If they are not smart sending them to Lexington schools isn't going to solve anything.
My guess is most of the people that can afford the expensive towns are smart themselves and end up with smart kids most of the time? thus the unfairness of life.
I'm not advocating people send low-IQ students to high performing schools expecting great outcomes.
I'm suggesting average students in the better districts (say the upper 30 percentile) are more likely to: have better funded educational resources (e.g., creative arts, robotics/coding classes, music, STEM focused extracurriculars/electives, etc.), work to higher standards due to elevated peers, share classrooms/social groups with a lower percentage of "troubled" students, etc.
You better the statistical odds of a "good outcome", even if the near term outcome is your child graduates mid-pack versus upper tier in a lesser district. And no, I'm not advocating for 'elite' high-stakes districts like Lexington ... I'm suggesting parents select an upper third percentile district which funds a good breadth of electives and extracurriculars.
Why are people on here always so against the fact the blue collar workers can and do make a good living? My cousin actually is a lineman for iBEW and he makes a good living. I don't think he makes 160k, but quite frankly plenty of white collar people aren't making that amount either.
Why are people on here always so against the fact the blue collar workers can and do make a good living? My cousin actually is a lineman for iBEW and he makes a good living. I don't think he makes 160k, but quite frankly plenty of white collar people aren't making that amount either.
Painting with a broad stroke. I’m the first to advocate for the trades, so long as one is willing to deal with down stream orthopedic issues depending on the specific industry.
Most tradesmen are paid for critical thinking, risk, and/or demand ... so a good early education is still a key foundation to future success. I know a handful of automotive/diesel techs pulling $140k+, but none in that tier are stupid or lazy. In fact, their IQs would probably place them at a grad-level ... very sharp people.
Can you elaborate on this? I would love to hear your experience because this is something that I often think about for my own child. I don't know if it's worth the push into the "elite" school system or not? What is the real difference?
Sure. It’s a tough call. There will be pros and cons with any particular school and every situation is unique. Basically, you can try to get a feel for which overall environment feels like the best fit for you and your child. I’m happy to share my own recent experience as a parent with students at the #1 school and the #34 school. Hope it helps!
School #1
The school is the star attraction in town and families move there specifically due to its academic reputation. Parents are all white collar, highly educated (graduate school) and “hands on” in pushing academics both inside school and extra enrichment outside of school. The school is very large (2000 students) and offers every course and extra-curricular imaginable, including performing arts and athletics. The school is 50% Asian (primarily Chinese and Indian) and these students, in particular, are super-achievers academically. There is stiff competition to get into the honors and AP level classes as there are many different levels offered and only the best students will get into the highest level of classes. This leads to GPA deflation. Most kids will have outside SAT tutors, drawing from tutoring companies in town. According to Boston Magazine, the school’s average SAT score is 1325. A score of 1325 places around the 90th percentile. But this is just the “average” score; in a graduating class of 500, perfect and near-perfect SAT scores were common. So, it is tougher to stand out. Some kids can feel lost or overwhelmed in what was historically called a “pressure cooker” environment and this really can affect self-esteem. Recently, this issue has been acknowledged and more student support is offered in school and within the community in this regard. But, once they graduate, these kids are ready for college and most find college academics far easier than high school.
***this is the biggest difference in our experience that may tip the scales in an “elite” school’s favor***
College guidance is a sophisticated, well-oiled machine, starts early and parents are included at all turns. This does not mean that the Ivy League acceptance rate is anything to write home about. It’s not. It’s stiff competition in a school full of overachievers, and this may limit options for some really excellent students. But, the guidance counselors are absolute powerhouses. The counselors will try their hardest to get your child into their first choice school and can, and will, reach out to an admissions officer on a student’s behalf. The New England colleges know the school’s reputation and admissions officers visit campus to meet with students in person. These are the same admissions counselors who later read your child’s application.
School #34
The school is not the city’s main attraction, as the city has plenty of great things to offer in terms of shops, restaurants and coastline. It considered a very good school, and that is accurate. But it’s not the focus of the community. The student body is all white and from economically, politically and educationally diverse backgrounds. Many parents also attended the high school, during a time when it was lower ranked. Most parents are more “hands off” with their children’s education, and there is less intense pressure to succeed. With about 800 students, class sizes are smaller and there is more individualized attention. The main source of school pride is athletics. Almost all students participate in sports. Academic offerings are diverse, but AP course selection is smaller. There is not much of a foreign language program and only a small after-school theater program. A majority of students take honors level classes (since there are only two or three levels offered). AP classes, though limited, are more accessible to all students. This is a boost to GPA’s. Virtually all students will attend college. Many will be recruited as student athletes. According to Boston Magazine, the average SAT score is 1164, which falls around the 65th percentile. This is not a particularly competitive score for college admissions to elite schools, though the trend is away from SAT scores in college admissions. I’m unaware of students using outside tutors for the SAT. College guidance starts late in the game, is unsophisticated and is mainly student directed. Parents are discouraged from communicating directly with guidance counselors, and our child’s counselor is irritated when our child asks for help. We’re experiencing all of this during the pandemic, so this is likely a factor. The overall mood at the school has changed to extremely tense. The jury is still out on how college selection will play out for our senior.
***this is the biggest difference in our experience that may tip the scales in favor of a “non-elite” school***
It would be easier for a star student to stand out. I don’t mean just by getting all “A’s.” I mean the extras such as loading up on colleges courses, earning a merit scholarship, etc. Think “Big fish, little pond.”
I would love to hear firsthand experience of someone who's sent their kid thru one of the more urban, diverse (Not just white/asian) school systems/high schools. Unfortunately a lot of these seem to suffer in the rankings, both GreatSchools and the article from the OP. Frankly I don't trust the lists since they don't take into consideration the differences in learning and parenting styles. So trying to get as many different perspectives as possible
I would love to hear firsthand experience of someone who's sent their kid thru one of the more urban, diverse (Not just white/asian) school systems/high schools. Unfortunately a lot of these seem to suffer in the rankings, both GreatSchools and the article from the OP. Frankly I don't trust the lists. I'm conscious of the problems with relying on published rankings so trying to get as many different perspectives as possible
And more specifically I think the high school level is what paints the clearest picture. Then you can avoid the folks that come on here to slice and dice data like how great one school in their district is for left handed brown eyed 3rd graders with glasses. The validity of those arguments tends to fall apart as kids go through high school and on to their respective paths.
The only thing that surprises me about these lists is that people put stock in the rankings for anything other than a modest impact on property values in those towns.
bingo!
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