Like he** I'm going to pay these prices! (Boston, Holyoke: unemployment, theater)

[msRB311]

I think there could be more people who decide to buy further out of Boston as wfh continues.

[mdovell]

At this point I have to ask like what would businesses really be losing if they relocate out of Boston? Considering that many businesses say they're in Boston but they're actually in the 128 belt which is further out. If you look at population density in drop Massachusetts in Texas than Pittsfield would be considered a suburb of Boston. I don't think being in Worcester or Lowell or even Fall River in New Bedford is that far out to be considered in the Boston Metro. Back in the day when you had to change phone numbers when you moved yeah there was an upfront cost of that. I work for a company that bought out another one and they literally had to scrape off all the older companies materials probably over a million.

If you want a nice view of a downtown you can always just go to Window snap.

I know some people of Zoom fatigue and I can understand that I had a training seminar for about 4 hours a few weeks ago. But at the same point during many people that are disabled that can't readily go back if things go back to the old normal. Let's say somebody was born with some spinal deformity and as a result they can't walk. If they have a job that involves telecommuting you can't realistically expect them to come into the office especially with the lack of public transportation there is now and the cost of private rides. Even the highest end gaming PC cost less than the lowest used car you can get on the market. So if we're looking at maintaining a form of equality and Equity then this is going to continue to be the norm.

Unless you cough the commuting time against driving and technically you're actually working Beyond clock when commutes are added. A long time ago I work for a company that had plenty of things on site because it attracted more people there. On-site daycare, on-site Cafe they did concession so was actually really good food, on-site oil changes on a nice sunny day, on-site gym which was very cheap, private bus shuttles to get there, dry cleaner drop off, two rotating independent shops in the lobby.

The other big issue is the unemployment insurance rate which is paid for by employers is gone up significantly and is hitting them quite hard.
https://www.masslive.com/politics/20...nt-claims.html

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I think there could be more people who decide to buy further out of Boston as wfh continues.

We're completely out of the West Hartford place on April 20th. We just changed the winter ski place from Vermont to the Vail valley. My fiancee's New England job was already 80% remote before the pandemic. She hired remote staff who live all over the country. Her manager who does the day to day for her staff lives in Alabama. She hired someone who lives in El Paso recently. Worst case, she can hop on an airplane a couple times per month to get the face time while we're in Colorado. The rest of the year, her hospitals are all a couple hours drive or less from West Portugal and it's a far easier drive than the Boston rush.

[id77]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Since few places are really going to reopen their offices to normal the houses are no going back on the market. People sold houses to buy other houses, not rent temporarily. Covid was the straw that broke the camels bank. I see people that work for "BOSTON" that are really in western mass, southern NH, RI and CT. If you want the 128 belt education sure but recently I've started to see new Boston based jobs that are now remote and reopening is in satellite offices in smaller cities. If people aren't coming back why pay Boston commercial rents?

I don't think we have a housing bubble but those that now live in suburbs are going to be much more apt to approve development to make it more urban.

The answer is a majority of people will be coming back, they just don't know it yet. What's a few now will be more in a year and most in 4-5. Not all, but 80% or so will and the problem we have now is everyone is thinking they're that 20% this won't apply to. If you worked remote before Covid, your chances are better, but a lot of those 9-5s are coming back, even if only for 3-4 days a week.

My employer is already discussing plans to go 100% back to the office full-time after the July 4th holiday, and I'm working for a tech company that makes money off people WFH. If companies in that market are recognizing the long-term cost benefit is getting people back into offices, it's a matter of time before others also figure it out. A lot of the local job market is tech and finance, and when the tech and finance giants are looking at returning to the office, the smaller players will eventually follow suit.

People who absolutely want to live further out for whatever reason can do so of course, but they should have the expectation that they will be coming in a few days a week eventually. Maybe hotels/extended-stay will tick up in usage as people who live far away decide the best option is to just rent a room on days they work and only commute once per week.

If one wants to live in an area that feels more urban, why not just live in an urban area? Don't say because it's cheaper either, because that's a self-defeating goal. If you move out to a cheaper suburban area then rebuild it to look and feel more like the attractive trendy urban areas you got priced out of, all that will happen is the people who priced you out of the old trendy urban areas you liked will show up and price you out of your new trendy urban area.

[msRB311]

We had a meeting yesterday where remote work was brought up. We will absolutely have WFH moving forward. One person said they recently bought a home in Lowell and his manager has ok'ed him that WFH will continue so he wont have to come in often.

No one wants to go back to 100% in office work. And if anyone does want to they can but should not force others to do so. Our HR dept actually said they'll work with people who want to negotiate staying remote if they feel pressured to go back in.

[id77]

Originally Posted by msRB311

We had a meeting yesterday where remote work was brought up. We will absolutely have WFH moving forward. One person said they recently bought a home in Lowell and his manager has ok'ed him that WFH will continue so he wont have to come in often.

No one wants to go back to 100% in office work. And if anyone does want to they can but should not force others to do so. Our HR dept actually said they'll work with people who want to negotiate staying remote if they feel pressured to go back in.

Corporations have compelled people to do things forever. They're not going to stop now because people don't want to work in an office. Your office may be an outlier, but for anyone outside of small businesses, where the cost of offices can be expensive, there should be an expectation of at least hybrid. For every corporation I've seen go more toward permanent WFH, there's 3-4 others that are already looking for the right opportunity to start swinging their employees back into the office.

[msRB311]

The future of work is changing. The work schedule has been the same since the 1920s. It's time for a chance. People don't want to waste time on their commute in. People don't want to sit in an office for 50 hours a week. To stay competitive companies will have to get on board with remote work. It's not going away.

[Boompa]

They keep telling me my house is worth more but I don’t see any demand. I don’t need to move and listing is a pain. This is just the Real Estate Industry trying to create the market they want

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by id77

If one wants to live in an area that feels more urban, why not just live in an urban area? Don't say because it's cheaper either, because that's a self-defeating goal. If you move out to a cheaper suburban area then rebuild it to look and feel more like the attractive trendy urban areas you got priced out of, all that will happen is the people who priced you out of the old trendy urban areas you liked will show up and price you out of your new trendy urban area.

Sure, but if you only need occasional face time in a conference room, there are other urban places that aren't as outrageously expensive as Boston.



Do the math. A million dollar condo in Boston isn't much of a condo. At 20% down, it's probably costing you $5k per month. You could buy a better condo at 50 cents on the dollar a block from Rittenhouse Square and fly/Acela to Boston a couple times per month paying your own way for lodging and come out way ahead. I haven't done the math but I'd assume you could do the same from Chicago since it's a competitive city pair.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by id77

The answer is a majority of people will be coming back, they just don't know it yet. What's a few now will be more in a year and most in 4-5. Not all, but 80% or so will and the problem we have now is everyone is thinking they're that 20% this won't apply to. If you worked remote before Covid, your chances are better, but a lot of those 9-5s are coming back, even if only for 3-4 days a week.

My employer is already discussing plans to go 100% back to the office full-time after the July 4th holiday, and I'm working for a tech company that makes money off people WFH. If companies in that market are recognizing the long-term cost benefit is getting people back into offices, it's a matter of time before others also figure it out. A lot of the local job market is tech and finance, and when the tech and finance giants are looking at returning to the office, the smaller players will eventually follow suit.

People who absolutely want to live further out for whatever reason can do so of course, but they should have the expectation that they will be coming in a few days a week eventually. Maybe hotels/extended-stay will tick up in usage as people who live far away decide the best option is to just rent a room on days they work and only commute once per week.

If one wants to live in an area that feels more urban, why not just live in an urban area? Don't say because it's cheaper either, because that's a self-defeating goal. If you move out to a cheaper suburban area then rebuild it to look and feel more like the attractive trendy urban areas you got priced out of, all that will happen is the people who priced you out of the old trendy urban areas you liked will show up and price you out of your new trendy urban area.

I don't think so. There's a difference between having the ability to do something and actually wanting to do it. You have to think of this in more aggregate terms. It's easy to talk about going to boston now since the traffic is lighter but if everyone did that... We just went though a year without the world falling apart. Had this been 30+ years ago it would have been a much bigger impact. Is it worth it going back to the same job if you are driving 60 minutes each way? Who pays for that time? You can't talk, text or use data (legally) so that's lost time. Public transit? Good luck with that. Schools will reopen fully, I see no reason for that to be even hybrid by september. But for actual office work there's no gain by going in when so much was virtual to begin with. If you work in manufacturing or R&D ok fine I get that. There's only so far that a 3d printer at home can take a company but think of all the finance, legal and administrative positions that pretty much use software that can be on the cloud. Who doesn't have broadband at this point? if a company *REALLY* was doing bad it would have been reflected by their financial statements. How many 10K's show a significant decline in revenue and profitability? Show me a company, any publicly traded company on any index worldwide. Yes we had a significant downturn in the market last year the market went to a 39 month low but then within eight months it all came back and then some and that's just the dow. the nasdaq is up nearly 40%

As for places becoming more urban that's just part of development. More people bring in more needs and wants and eventually it gets more satisfied. A town of 20k people is probably not going to have a Jamaican restaurant. But if it's 20K and goes up another 5K maybe it might. It's hard for a place to develop and not increase in diversity. If you mean that development flows from one to another that's already happened for quite some time. I've heard of some going from Boston to Brockton and some priced out of Brockton (don't laugh) that go to fall river or new bedford.