what is the crime really like on maui? (to rent, insurance)

[Tulemutt]

States with Weak Gun Laws and Higher Gun Ownership Lead Nation in Gun Deaths, New Data for 2015 Confirms

Alaska, Louisiana Have Highest Gun Death Rates in the Nation;

Massachusetts, Hawaii Have Lowest

2015 U.S. Firearms Death Rate Up 7 Percent Over 2014—Highest Rate Since 1997

Gun Deaths Per Capita: Hawaii ranks 49th > Hawaii Free Press

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

I say law abiding citizens have the Constitutional God given right to bare arms...

Don't know that either Constitution or god say anything about "bare arms ...". Nor do I recall anyone in this thread bringing that issue up ... although I would encourage you to wear sunscreen if you are light-skinned coming to enjoy the Hawaii sun.

But, back to the conversation about the suitability to bear arms in Hawaii ...

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Gun Deaths Per Capita: Hawaii ranks 49th > Hawaii Free Press

Does that take into account that 60% of gun deaths are attributed to suicide?

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by Jungjohann

Vast majority of people who 'move' here stay less than two years. They all pretty much start with the same premise as you, 'I'll fit in just fine', and, they find out, for any one of a multitude of reasons, that Hawaii isn't quite what they expected. Perception vs reality, postcard vs being there, website discussions vs the real thing. Regardless, best of luck, but I'd leave the gun at home, in a safe place.

Okolemaluna

That is very possible, but if it turns out Hawaii isn't for us we won't be left with regrets and would be an adventure.

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Yes!

And I object to regular police officers having so many guns - they only reason they need them is so many other people have guns.

You can only have an appreciation for how ridiculous the gun culture is here unless you've lived overseas. I've lived in Australia, Japan, and Germany for 1 year each for work. It is incredibly rare to hear about any gun related crimes in Japan (especially), Australia, and much of Continental Europe. The mafia which is very real in Japan won't even use guns.

There are only a couple of options on what is going on in the US. Too many guns. Or, people in the US are generally more crazy than the rest of those countries. Or, both. You pick.

Most police officers only carry a service weapon and possibly a back up. Other than that, most heavy weapons and long guns are left to tactical teams. The reason police carry a firearm is because there is more ways for a police officer to get killed that is not a firearm.

We do have a gun culture here and you can agree or disagree with how ridiculous that is, but it is our Constitutional right to bear arms. If you don't want to bear arms, then that is your choice. You have the Constitutional right to defend your life and property. You say too many guns, I say too many people. The gun doesn't fire on its own, it needs a person to pull the trigger.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

My attitude is just fine, we just happen to disagree. I say law abiding citizens have the Constitutional God given right to bare arms to defend themselves and you say otherwise. You may not like that attitude and that is fine, just as I believe you are naive to human nature and evil.

Thank you for your service and good night to you as well.

I've begun to change my mind as a result of reading more posts now from you. I think you may well be a LEO (in NY) after all. Your earlier posted enthusiasm for gun bravado smacked of youthful testosterone running unfettered. Now you are striking me as someone who lives in the very narrowly defined world of law enforcement pressures. Worst job in the world, arguably, regrettably consigning its agents to dealing constantly with the worst manifestations of human behavior - while also relegating same agents to only very limited social engagement with the more common, non-LEO, cultural friendships and environments of society. Damn shame.

But, with regard to "attitude" and us being in "disagreement," uh, no, not so much. You have taken unearned liberties in defining my "beliefs."

I do completely agree that law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms and defend themselves. I simply point out that we aren't very competent nor safe to do so. It's not at all a good idea to have people running around armed ... whether they're trained or not. Because the vast majority of folks, no matter how well trained, can't be trusted to act wisely and competently under perceived mortal pressures. Even cops make a lot of mistakes and snap misjudgements - that sometimes cost lives - as you well know.

And, btw, I own handguns, rifles, and shotguns myself currently - and hold a CCW as well (although I never carry).

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

I believe you are naive to human nature and evil.

As to your assumption about me being naive to human nature and evil - well, that's a bit of a chuckle coming from someone who's adult life experience has been limited to dealing with crime and unregulated emotions and emergency response. Your adult life experience is an impressive challenge to navigate - but not a bit well rounded, sir. No offense. A well rounded perspective is called for when making broad generalizations. Your view is dark and narrow by nature.

In my time overseas and under fire I am confident I experienced every aspect of the evils to be found in human nature. I was not peripheral to the action. It was intense, sustained, and repetitive. This is not to diminish the danger and endurance of years on the job on city streets. But my point is I have been fully immersed in the widest range of heroism, cowardice, malice, support, betrayal, committment, suffering, criminality, and yes, good luck as well.

But beyond those years, I have lived fully in the day to day world outside of war and crime and mental illness and disaster. I've got a lot of years on you, sir. My guess is at least 30. I've been a blue-collar, mostly self-employed, everyday Joe for a full second career out of service. Now retired from all. And, other than my years overseas, I fully integrated with everyday society. No closed circle of culture such as nearly all LEO's live within.

Guns suck. Human nature is as ugly and out of control as it can sometimes also be beautiful. The two together, guns and human nature, are a recipe for tragedy.

You came into an old thread to defend the concept of CCW as socially beneficial. You magnified the OP story - which didn't say anything about: 300 lbs, fat, or broken bottle attacks. The story simply portrayed a punk ass verbal threat (made more dramatic by a bottle in hand). This verbal exchange occurred in the state with the least gun violence in the nation. But to you it represents a prime example of the value of CCW. I represent that the best course of action was the one [successfully] enacted by the story's OP: he walked away. Diffused. No one got shot ... or even punched.

You may well retire to Hawaii ... and love it and stick with your move. Aloha. But you will never "fit in" with your retired NY cop, 2nd Amendment, CCW-loving, chutzpa. IMHO. You don't need to "fit in", of course. Lots who move to Hawaii never do. You also won't need to CCW in Hawaii.

But, sincerely, best of wishes and luck finishing your career years. Worst job in the world.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

, I say too many people. .

On this we could not be in greater agreement ...

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

Does that take into account that 60% of gun deaths are attributed to suicide?

Not sure why you ask. What difference does it make?

But, here you go (from the link):

The VPC analysis refers to overall gun death rates in 2015, the most recent year for which data is available. The deaths include gun homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I've begun to change my mind as a result of reading more posts now from you. I think you may well be a LEO (in NY) after all. Your earlier posted enthusiasm for gun bravado smacked of youthful testosterone running unfettered. Now you are striking me as someone who lives in the very narrowly defined world of law enforcement pressures. Worst job in the world, arguably, regrettably consigning its agents to dealing constantly with the worst manifestations of human behavior - while also relegating same agents to only very limited social engagement with the more common, non-LEO, cultural friendships and environments of society. Damn shame.

But, with regard to "attitude" and us being in "disagreement," uh, no, not so much. You have taken unearned liberties in defining my "beliefs."

I do completely agree that law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms and defend themselves. I simply point out that we aren't very competent nor safe to do so. It's not at all a good idea to have people running around armed ... whether they're trained or not. Because the vast majority of folks, no matter how well trained, can't be trusted to act wisely and competently under perceived mortal pressures. Even cops make a lot of mistakes and snap misjudgements - that sometimes cost lives - as you well know.

And, btw, I own handguns, rifles, and shotguns myself currently - and hold a CCW as well (although I never carry).

Hahaha, "enthusiasm for gun bravado fueled by youthful testosterone running unfettered," that's pretty good. I don't think so. I'm just going by stats, data, and facts.

Without a doubt the LE culture is a culture of its own and we do sometimes see life through that lens, but I do actually have a life outside that realm. Most of my social encounters are outside LE and I prefer it that way--work stays at work and home stays at home. For many officers the two realities of life blur together to the point when one doesn't recognize one from the other. My capabilities of rational and logical thought is still entact. Your psychobabble is surely entertaining, but not even close.

It's not a good idea to have non-law abiding citizens running around armed. Even in gun friendly states where it is easy for a law abiding citizen to acquire a conceal carry permit I do not see all kinds of armed people running around. Now, do the stats suggest we aren't competent nor safe to do so? I don't see the facts to back up such a claim. Accidental discharges and unintentional deaths make up a small fraction of gun related deaths. The vast majority of gun related deaths is attributed to suicide and urban area gang violence. When you look at all the deaths in whole, gun related deaths accounts for less than 2%.

I'm not sure what you mean that people can't be trusted to act wisely and competently under perceived mortal pressures? I get the fact that mistakes are made and even we as police officers make mistakes, but are there enough mistakes made that the right to carry and conceal be taken away?