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Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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How bad is really the drug violence problem of Mexico?
I was reading a Brazilian magazine called Carta Capital (capital letter) and I found it very interesting because it provides a less biased and more realistic view of Mexico's problem in the border cities, I'm gonna translate the most important parts of it for those interested in getting well informed about the real dimensions of this situation, this thread will be made a sticky temporarily.
To see the problem in Mexico on it's right dimension it's convenient to point that the total homicide rate in 2008 in Mexico was of 11 per 100,000 inhabitants, this is equivalent to the official rate of the state of Sao Paulo and less than half of the Brazilian average (which is around 24,5 per 100,000). The state of Chihuahua reached 75 per 100,000 and Ciudad Juarez, the great border city of that state (1,4 million inhabitants) reached 118 per 100,000, slightly higher to the 90 per 100,000 of Recife or 104 per 100,000 of Maceió. Outside the border states, chances of being a homicide victim are much less than in the majority of Brazil.
But this violence although statistically lower, it's more visible and resorts more to terror to intimidate the people and authorities.
Like in certain Brazilian social circles, there is a juvenile glorification of traffic and criminal activity. O local equivalent of the "forbidden" funk are the narcocorridos.
The perception of lack of control is higher in the USA's viewpoint because for them Mexico is essentially the northern border (the major part of investments and tourists don't go further.) than in Mexico where the situation is regarded as grave but regional, although the problem can be escalated if the financial crisis of the USA worsens which is a possibility, because the crisis it's far from being over.
Interesting reaction from Brazil--Not one shared by many Mexicans. According to the daily newspaper "Mural" it is only recently that the economy has replaced "inseguridad" as the average Mexican's foremost concern.
Wikipedia.org indicates that the homicide rate for Mexico in 2008 was 10 per 100,000 vice 5.4 per 100,000 in the US. The Wikipedia article also notes regarding the statistics that "They may also be underreported for political reasons." Mexican crime figures are typically underreported (in some cities up to 90 percent) due to fear of authorities, difficulty in making reports, etc.. Finally, there is also the problem of "irregular" disposition of bodies. I have attached two links discussing Santiago Meza Lopez, the "stew maker" employed by the narcotraficante Teodoro Eduardo Garcia Simental.
Nationmaster.com indicates that the homicide rate for Mexico is 13 per 100,000 versus 4.2 in the US.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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Well I'm from Mexico and I'm well aware of the insecurity problem here, I travel often to places like Juarez, Tampico, Morelos, etc. And obviously it would be naive to deny that there is a problem, and it might get more serious, but I honestly believe that you exaggerating, unless you are in Juarez the chances of getting killed by the organized crime "soldiers" are very slim, most of the people who has been killed had some story with the organized crime.
Today I was speaking with a friend from Veracruz and she told me that their neighboor's youngest child was murdered, yes this is brutal but the reason was because the older brother refused to pay a debt he had with the zetas, most cases are like this.
If you aren't messing around with the crime or are way too wealthy and famous it is very hard that you get kidnapped or assasinated by the organized crime. However this doesn't mean the situation couldn't get worse, as it has gotten worse, we all know also the root of the problem, which is corruption, organized crime members buy the cops and they use intimidation and fear as their weapons, so for example if you get in trouble with them, they will do something like killing a family member to send you their message, and forget about going to the police for help because they are already bought by them, this happens a lot specially in smaller cities or towns. But if you avoid making any relationship with them this doesn't have to happen to you.
I don't feel unsafe or scared living in Mexico, and I don't fear for my life either even though I go to places like Juarez often because of my job because I've never done anything wrong, most Mexicans feel the same, although we are worried that the situation might get worse, most people here are against the war the government started because we didn't see this violence before, the president says that it's now or never and that it'd be a coward act to step back and this will just generate more violence, but I ask, is their strategy correct? wouldn't be easier to fight of corruption? for me this war is just a smoke screen something a diversion from discussing what really matters, but those in power don't want to loose their benefits, even if it means a more prosperous and safe nation, if the reforms that Mexico needs so badly were passed this country would start growing just like Brazil or other countries who've done their homework, obviously the problems wouldn't disappear overnight it might take decades for the results to be evident.
I wonder what it is needed to unite and convince all the citizens to do something to pressure our government, syndicates and all those power groups that have us in this situation, perhaps this is what is needed, we shall see.
"If you aren't messing around with the crime...." With all respect I think that the parents of the fifteen students killed recently in Cd. Juarez and the ten youngsters killed in Durango might take exception to your comment.
10 jóvenes masacrados en norte de México - EL MUNDO:: - nacioncom (http://www.nacion.com/2010-03-30/Mundo/NotasSecundarias/Mundo2319291.aspx - broken link)
If you aren't messing around with the crime or are way too wealthy and famous it is very hard that you get kidnapped or assasinated by the organized crime. However this doesn't mean the situation couldn't get worse, as it has gotten worse, we all know also the root of the problem, which is corruption, organized crime members buy the cops and they use intimidation and fear as their weapons, so for example if you get in trouble with them, they will do something like killing a family member to send you their message, and forget about going to the police for help because they are already bought by them, this happens a lot specially in smaller cities or towns. But if you avoid making any relationship with them this doesn't have to happen to you.
I was talking the other day with some of my Juarez friends - either who still live there or go over there to visit family or to shop and that's the same thing they say. They're not afraid because they and the people they associate with over there are not connected to criminal activities in any way.
A couple of them in a position to know some things said that many of the extortion calls are actually hoaxes or people including kids taking advantage of the situation. They said that common people without money are getting some calls which indicates to them that it's not the cartel at all because the cartel would go after real money, would know where the real money is. The calls will start out with "We're from The Line and we're calling to offer protection.." and instructions to put a certain amount of money into some account. If these scammers call enough people, they probably actually get some giving them money but they aren't from cartels at all - just posers who figure why not - if they can get by with it and get some money.
They were also saying that they don't go driving around after dark, they stay home in the evening but in the day they shop, go to school, work and whatever else -- probably like people in any city with substantial crime rates.
I think the problem is that enough people are closing shop and leaving their homes that the future seems shakey - if too many leave, then that means fewer jobs, fewer people shopping, supporting the city, and too many houses sitting empty and boarded up. That's what happened to Detroit and many US inner cities and too many people leaving can bring things down.
That seems a possibility for Juarez, thousands of people from there have moved to El Paso in just a few weeks -- people with the means to do so, but what does that mean for the people who can't or won't leave? It seems like it's just going to result in a lot more joblessness and instability.
I was talking the other day with some of my Juarez friends - either who still live there or go over there to visit family or to shop and that's the same thing they say. They're not afraid because they and the people they associate with over there are not connected to criminal activities in any way.
The problem here is that you don't always know what someone you are acquainted with is doing. A lot of times you don't even know what your closest relatives are involved with if they don't want you to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
A couple of them in a position to know some things said that many of the extortion calls are actually hoaxes or people including kids taking advantage of the situation.
I've heard the same thing but how do you know the difference? It's easy to make a judgment call when it's someone else, but when it's *you* on the line and it's *your* kids or parents being threatened with execution, are you prepared to take that risk?
That's like saying many robbers who put a gun to your head and demand your wallet aren't really going to shoot you if you refuse.
Today I was speaking with a friend from Veracruz and she told me that their neighboor's youngest child was murdered, yes this is brutal but the reason was because the older brother refused to pay a debt he had with the zetas, most cases are like this.
If you aren't messing around with the crime or are way too wealthy and famous it is very hard that you get kidnapped or assasinated by the organized crime.
I see a contradiction here. Or was that younger brother also involved with the zetas?
It's not enough that you don't mess around with criminal elements, you also have to avoid being acquainted or related with someone who is (whether you know it or not).
You see, the cartels have no sense of morality and justice, they don't take great pains to avoid innocent bystanders when they go after a target, and they don't spare you because you did nothing wrong. Far from being comforting, your example is disturbing. I can control my actions, I cannot control the actions of my relatives, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc.
So I guess the rule is be a loner, make no friends, don't ever be loved or liked enough by anyone that your gruesome death could serve as an example or message to them. Some world.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,440,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiverTodd62
I see a contradiction here. Or was that younger brother also involved with the zetas?
It's not enough that you don't mess around with criminal elements, you also have to avoid being acquainted or related with someone who is (whether you know it or not).
You see, the cartels have no sense of morality and justice, they don't take great pains to avoid innocent bystanders when they go after a target, and they don't spare you because you did nothing wrong. Far from being comforting, your example is disturbing. I can control my actions, I cannot control the actions of my relatives, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc.
So I guess the rule is be a loner, make no friends, don't ever be loved or liked enough by anyone that your gruesome death could serve as an example or message to them. Some world.
Nah not really is not as black and white as it seems, I live in mexico, I've lived here for my entire life, I've also lived in other countries like the USA and Brazil, I'm accustomed to make lots of friends and be nice to people, nothing has ever happened to me and I doubt it will, cuz I've never been involved with crime. Most mexicans live their daily lifes this way.
Thousands of people who are involved with crime, even directly working with or for the cartels, can say the same. Anyone alive today has thus far not been killed.
You didn't address the contradiction. It isn't just about avoiding crime yourself but avoiding anyone else who may be involved (with or without your knowledge). As you said, when they want to "send a message" to someone they often target an innocent friend or relative of that person.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 11,440,733 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiverTodd62
Thousands of people who are involved with crime, even directly working with or for the cartels, can say the same. Anyone alive today has thus far not been killed.
You didn't address the contradiction. It isn't just about avoiding crime yourself but avoiding anyone else who may be involved (with or without your knowledge). As you said, when they want to "send a message" to someone they often target an innocent friend or relative of that person.
Yes but random violence and shootings exists everywhere in the world, even in the USA people dies by random fire on a frequent basis, and not because of that you are going to hide under your chair holding your breath because you might be killed today.
Organized crime is everywhere in the 4 corners of the world, so everybody could be involved with it and you might not even know, this isn't an exclusivity of Mexico.
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