Condo Collapse and insurance (Miami, Surfside: renters, condominiums, how much)

[Oldsmobile]

Generally, does a policy holder have to prove that a loss was caused by a covered reason, or does the insurance company have to prove that the loss was caused by something that is not covered?
If the cause is never known, what happens with insurance?

[logybogy]

If the insurer is Citizen's, they'll pay out regardless because it is the state but this new 2018 report is very damning to the board. A private insurer would not pay and claim gross negligence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/u...stigation.html

[Vector1]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

if they didn't get flood insurance, and if flooding was the cause, they are out of luck. it may take a long time to determine.

Flooding?

Miami has not had any flooding despite what environmental kooks claim. However even if there was "flooding" it would only be applicable to the bottom floor. All the units above would not be effected unless it was a tidal wave.

Back to the likely root cause, that being structural failure. In that case HOA insurance should cover everything short of a deductible, just like it would for a fire, hurricane, etc.
As to the belongings, like most condo policies, the HOA is only responsible for the slab, walls, ceilings and common areas.
All floor, wall, ceiling coverings, cabinetry, etc. are the responsibility of the owners policies. That includes all contents like appliances, furniture, clothes, art, jewelry, etc.

Now in regard to those killed or injured, then you are looking at a multi-million to billion lawsuit. Once all insurance is exhausted, my guess is the lawyers will use the shotgun effect and go after the owners of the complex, as well as the city (assuming it passed inspections), maybe even any contractors who did work to it.
Needless to say no amount of money can compensate people for their lost loved ones, but rest assured lawyers are flying in from around the country as we speak to get a piece of the action.


`

[MadManofBethesda]

Originally Posted by Vector1

Flooding?

Miami has not had any flooding despite what environmental kooks claim. However even if there was "flooding" it would only be applicable to the bottom floor. All the units above would not be effected unless it was a tidal wave.

Back to the likely root cause, that being structural failure. In that case HOA insurance should cover everything short of a deductible, just like it would for a fire, hurricane, etc.
As to the belongings, like most condo policies, the HOA is only responsible for the slab, walls, ceilings and common areas.
All floor, wall, ceiling coverings, cabinetry, etc. are the responsibility of the owners policies. That includes all contents like appliances, furniture, clothes, art, jewelry, etc.

Now in regard to those killed or injured, then you are looking at a multi-million to billion lawsuit. Once all insurance is exhausted, my guess is the lawyers will use the shotgun effect and go after the owners of the complex, as well as the city (assuming it passed inspections), maybe even any contractors who did work to it.
Needless to say no amount of money can compensate people for their lost loved ones, but rest assured lawyers are flying in from around the country as we speak to get a piece of the action.

You realize that most (or a good portion) of the owners are probably dead, right?

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by sam2116

I don't know how many units were in this buildings, when there are so many unit owners who perhaps lost almost everything, there will many law suits. I don't know what actual loss will be. Can some lawyer find some structural defect in building inspection reports as a potential claim for title insurance.

Or title insurance only deals with ownership claims like ex spouse or kids or siblings in case of estate settlement of former owners.

I read in this hot housing market, many home buyers are waiving home inspection. In this case how title insurance fit in for past structural defects.

You are all over the place.............title insurance would not cover building defects nor ownership claims!


Home inspection for a condo would only inspect the unit itself, not the whole building.

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by Vector1

Flooding?

Miami has not had any flooding despite what environmental kooks claim. However even if there was "flooding" it would only be applicable to the bottom floor. All the units above would not be effected unless it was a tidal wave.

Back to the likely root cause, that being structural failure. In that case HOA insurance should cover everything short of a deductible, just like it would for a fire, hurricane, etc.
As to the belongings, like most condo policies, the HOA is only responsible for the slab, walls, ceilings and common areas.
All floor, wall, ceiling coverings, cabinetry, etc. are the responsibility of the owners policies. That includes all contents like appliances, furniture, clothes, art, jewelry, etc.

Now in regard to those killed or injured, then you are looking at a multi-million to billion lawsuit. Once all insurance is exhausted, my guess is the lawyers will use the shotgun effect and go after the owners of the complex, as well as the city (assuming it passed inspections), maybe even any contractors who did work to it.
Needless to say no amount of money can compensate people for their lost loved ones, but rest assured lawyers are flying in from around the country as we speak to get a piece of the action.


`

I agree with most of this................except the lawyers showing up expecting a windfall. They can get judgments but collecting on them will be impossible if they are jumbo judgments. They won't want to front the costs of this huge fiasco if they don't think they can/will collect.

Building insurance will payout minus deductible and demolition/debris removal costs. So if they insured it for 20 million that will be the payout/134 unit owners/ 150K each. It can get dicey on insured value because nobody would think the whole building would get damaged like this condemning every unit and the values surged in the last 3+ years so if they valued the building in 2015 then it would be grossly underinsured.

Individual owners may not have coverage on the interior of their units, maybe self insure decline coverage. In that case they will get nothing except whatever the building coverage settles at.

Then once the lot is cleared, the heirs/owners have to decide what to do with the land. It is a valuable asset but 134 people will have to vote whether to sell or make it a park or something.

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by logybogy

If the insurer is Citizen's, they'll pay out regardless because it is the state but this new 2018 report is very damning to the board. A private insurer would not pay and claim gross negligence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/u...stigation.html

But remember many of the policies are "re-insured" with another company like Lloyds of London.......they might balk at paying the subinsured policy. This is going to be a huge check/loss so they will do whatever they can to dodge writing it.

[sam2116]

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

I agree with most of this................except the lawyers showing up expecting a windfall. They can get judgments but collecting on them will be impossible if they are jumbo judgments. They won't want to front the costs of this huge fiasco if they don't think they can/will collect.

Building insurance will payout minus deductible and demolition/debris removal costs. So if they insured it for 20 million that will be the payout/134 unit owners/ 150K each. It can get dicey on insured value because nobody would think the whole building would get damaged like this condemning every unit and the values surged in the last 3+ years so if they valued the building in 2015 then it would be grossly underinsured.

Individual owners may not have coverage on the interior of their units, maybe self insure decline coverage. In that case they will get nothing except whatever the building coverage settles at.

Then once the lot is cleared, the heirs/owners have to decide what to do with the land. It is a valuable asset but 134 people will have to vote whether to sell or make it a park or something.

I don't know any thing about this building but most reasonable HOA will have full replacement value master HOA policy. I am assuming it is like $500/sq ft to build a building today to keep up with latest building codes and construction cost. I read online building has about 136 units and it is like 1500 sq ft/ unit when you include hall ways and common areas. So you are looking at something like $100 Million in replacement cost. But you never know as real estate prices have gone up quite a lot and many people don't keep up insurance valuation up to date.

[k350]

Originally Posted by sam2116

I don't know any thing about this building but most reasonable HOA will have full replacement value master HOA policy. I am assuming it is like $500/sq ft to build a building today to keep up with latest building codes and construction cost. I read online building has about 136 units and it is like 1500 sq ft/ unit when you include hall ways and common areas. So you are looking at something like $100 Million in replacement cost. But you never know as real estate prices have gone up quite a lot and many people don't keep up insurance valuation up to date.

That though is value versus replacement cost, not the same.

[Vector1]

Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda

You realize that most (or a good portion) of the owners are probably dead, right?

Owners of the building/property, not the individual owners. Now some condo/townhome bylaws/covenants will turn full ownership (and with it total responsibility for maintenance/upkeep) over to the individual owners who have it administered via a BoD and property management company.

As to the number of dead, sadly many perished that were home asleep. The way that building seems to have collapsed, it looked like a demolition took place. Even if the building had structural problems (poor design, decades of neglect) you would expect such a complete catastrophic failure.