[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by JGatti

When electric cars are the norm and everyone is plugging in for 10hrs+ a day the already high price of electricity will skyrocket.

That is possible, but solving an electricity shortage is much easier than solving an oil shortage. We could solve the electricity problem by building more nuclear power plants.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

That is possible, but solving an electricity shortage is much easier than solving an oil shortage. We could solve the electricity problem by building more nuclear power plants.

How many new nuclear plants have been built in the US in the past 20 years?

[michmoldman]

I thought I read they want to phase out nuclear power here. Maybe I'm wrong...

[Sparrow_temp]

The only viable alternative to petroleum products is nuclear energy.
Electric cars will never be viable for most people; they will always have a range limitation and unlike conventional cars -- the refueling time is in hours - not minutes.

A better option would be to switch to hydrogen fueled internal combustion engines or fuel cells (if they ever come down in price) and produce the hydrogen via nuclear power plants. The biggest problem with this is creating the infrastructure for it. All gas stations would have to also supply hydrogen and a lot of nuclear power plants would have to be built to produce the fuel. We have the technology for this today. It would eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, create huge number of jobs building the infrastructure, and create cars which produce virtually no pollution. Maybe the government could subsidize the price with all of the money saved by not being the policeman of the middle east.

The big negative is the cost. We'd need a lot more energy production since we would actually have to produce the energy to create hydrogen rather than getting energy out of the oil. The auto companies are now concentrating on hydrogen fuel cells as a power source since it's more efficient but the internal combustion engine is much more viable at this point in time. Range would be an issue since it's not much better than electric vehicles but at least refueling could be done rather than recharging batteries. The gas tank isn't real simple since hydrogen containment is much more complicated but it can be done.

I'm not sure how we'll ever be able to afford one of these new non-gasoline vehicles though since people are beginning to make less and the cost is > 3x what we're currently paying for less range.

Originally Posted by michmoldman

I thought I read they want to phase out nuclear power here. Maybe I'm wrong...

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by ram2

How many new nuclear plants have been built in the US in the past 20 years?

I said we could do it if we wanted to. I didn't say that Americans would be rational and actually address a problem.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

The only viable alternative to petroleum products is nuclear energy.
Electric cars will never be viable for most people; they will always have a range limitation and unlike conventional cars -- the refueling time is in hours - not minutes.

One model for solving this problem is what I (personally) call the "propane tank model". When your battery is getting low you could pull into a battery station and swap it out for a fully charged one. Of course, that would require a lot of standardization amongst the car and battery makers.

[Sparrow_temp]

I thought about that but the problem is that batteries have a finite life-span. They are also very expensive so nobody wants to be stuck with a bad one. I suspect the expected battery life is 5-10 yrs. In MI, this would be on the lower side. Winter weather is not good for battery life.

These batteries probably wouldn't be an easy swap either (it's not just one). The next battery advancement will probably be a molten salt battery which has the potential for reducing cost/size but I don't think replacing them would be a self-serve job like at a gas station. It'd probably be more akin to an oil change place at best.

An electric vehicle without a mechanism to quickly refuel itself (ie fuel cells) is a dead end except for short trips within town.

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

One model for solving this problem is what I (personally) call the "propane tank model". When your battery is getting low you could pull into a battery station and swap it out for a fully charged one. Of course, that would require a lot of standardization amongst the car and battery makers.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

I thought I read they want to phase out nuclear power here. Maybe I'm wrong...

Yes ,they do. problem is , no one wants the ones we have now. There is just too much spent fuel rods, and no place to put them..... Germany is doing away with all Nukes, France on the other hand depends on Nuke power a lot, and they are not far apart. The problem is too big to handle. The will be no more plants in the US. The" not in my back-yard" thing is enough to kill the idea alone.

[Retroit]

Originally Posted by JGatti

When electric cars are the norm and everyone is plugging in for 10hrs+ a day the already high price of electricity will skyrocket...

But aren't these cars charging mostly during the nighttime hours when there is less demand for electricity overall and the electric companies have a lot of surplus availability?

[gndboy]

What is wrong with petroleum? Do we all believe the silly child's tale that petroleum is the compressed remains of big reptiles? Think big. Think 3500 miles beneath your feet, with a nuclear core. What does that weigh? Are you willing to stake your entire belief system on Al Gore, Jr.? Maybe we need to think a little different than we have been told by propaganda-driven governments and idiot bureaucrats. Is it remotely possible we do not know everything? Get your mind right and then use it.