[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by danielj72

Something you said in this post really gets to the heart of the problem here with some of Michigans cities. The people of this state do not embrace city living much at all. I think it has to do with Detroits issues and Michiganders associating all city life with the things that have happened in Detroit. I have been to 46 states and in most of those states thier cities are something they are proud of. The downtowns are vibrant, people from all over visit those downtowns and enjoy the ammenities that the city offers. Something about Michigan that has always bothered me is the condition of some of the cities here. Just this spring I was in Tennessee and went to Chattanooga. What a cool downtown they have there, they have a world class aquarium, lots of food and shopping choices, beautiful riverfront you name it they got it.

As a city-oriented person, that's always bothered me about Michigan as well. I grew up in the same environment though, and for the longest time, I just assumed that cities like NYC were just worse Detroit's, etc. It wasn't until I moved out of MI that I saw just how cool and amazing cities could be. Now, I couldn't live anywhere but in a city.

But, to find just the right city in Michigan, it's not as easy of a task as it is in other states. Ann Arbor, while great by MI standards, is just too small overall. Grand Rapids, while a very nice-looking city, seems to have a strong Dutch/Conservative streak that I'm unsure about.

Lansing with its lack of a downtown or focus point, etc. If it could just work on that element somehow...

(I agree about Chattanooga...I visited there a few years ago, and loved it! I heard that it was nothing like that whatsoever up until relatively recently. If that's actually accurate, maybe there is some hope for some MI cities...)

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

As a city-oriented person, that's always bothered me about Michigan as well. I grew up in the same environment though, and for the longest time, I just assumed that cities like NYC were just worse Detroit's, etc. It wasn't until I moved out of MI that I saw just how cool and amazing cities could be. Now, I couldn't live anywhere but in a city.

But, to find just the right city in Michigan, it's not as easy of a task as it is in other states. Ann Arbor, while great by MI standards, is just too small overall. Grand Rapids, while a very nice-looking city, seems to have a strong Dutch/Conservative streak that I'm unsure about.

Lansing with its lack of a downtown or focus point, etc. If it could just work on that element somehow...

I'm going through the same thing. I want to move closer to my family in Michigan, but I have always been disenchanted by Michigan's answer to urban living. I like Ann Arbor, but it is a bit too expensive. I like Grand Rapids, but I don't see myself living there. Same goes for Detroit. I have been really spoiled living in Pittsburgh, because here we have both vibrant areas and neglected urban areas with potential (that I have always been drawn to).

At the moment, I am drawn to Jackson, Toledo (Ohio), and Bay City (I like working class style Victorian and industrial cities), but finding a job in any of those places is quite a challenge!

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I'm going through the same thing. I want to move closer to my family in Michigan, but I have always been disenchanted by Michigan's answer to urban living. I like Ann Arbor, but it is a bit too expensive. I like Grand Rapids, but I don't see myself living there. Same goes for Detroit. I have been really spoiled living in Pittsburgh, because here we have both vibrant areas and neglected urban areas with potential (that I have always been drawn to).

At the moment, I am drawn to Jackson, Toledo (Ohio), and Bay City (I like working class style Victorian and industrial cities), but finding a job in any of those places is quite a challenge!

Pittsburgh is a pretty cool, and very underrated city. I like it for pretty much everything, but another plus is isn't that far from Michigan, only 4 hours and at the MI border. That could be a lot worse.

Grand Rapids probably IS the best city larger city in MI for urban living. Yet, for some reason, and for reasons I can't put a clear finger on, just doesn't resonate to me as a magnet MI city to participate and get involved in. Don't know why. Maybe because of the Calivinistic/Dutch streak that I know nothing about, but since I'm not that, seems like I couldn't embrace it and it's culturally entirely. Unsure.

Anyways, you might want to look into metro Detroit more. Jobs there, and tons of cheap housing. Doesn't have to be within Detroit either. It seems many of the suburbs have attempted to take on a more urban-like role to compensate for Detroit. Maybe you could look more into Ferndale? I've also heard Wyandotte has some waterfront and walkability, not sure, haven't been to that one. Maybe even Windsor for living, and downtown Detroit for jobs? I've always wondered if many people do that.

Than there is always Cleveland, it would put you a few hours closer to MI anyways. Cleveland hasn't struck me as all that interesting in the past. But recently I was viewing Lakewood, OH, a suburb right on Lake Erie almost surrounded by Cleveland...and it's very affordable, very safe, very walkable, and the Erie culture. When I google mapped it, looked at stats, I was thinking that it would be a place I'd at least consider...(granted, MI or PA have greater appeal than anywhere in OH though).

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

Same here. In spite of Lansing's essential blandness, there is something I like about it. Perhaps it's the combination of Olds Tower and the historic capital building. They have a nice effect on Lansing's small skyline. I also generally like Lansing's modest residential neighborhoods, with their cottages and small bungalows. But I will never get over the fact that the city tore down its historic, and functional, brick city market for a pole barn.

Yeah, the historic capital building coming up Michigan Avenue is always something I liked.

I've also always liked the Lansing radio stations, which stood in stark contrast to driving down the road and enterting Flint's radio stations, where I could never find anything good to listen to. 'Elderly Instruments' in Old Town Lansing too...something about the large variety of musical instruments...always left an impression on me that Lansing has some interesting musical legancy for whatever reason.

[PreservationPioneer]

I might be able to make Pontiac work, but I haven't visited yet, so I'm unsure about its vibe. Ypsilanti also appeals to me. I might be tempted to live in the city of Detroit, if I could find the right neighborhood (affordable, old, but still reasonably safe).

[edsg25]

i think if you asked a lot of people which what they think would be the best city in southeast Michigan, a lot would say Ann Arbor instead of Detroit.

In the Lansing area, is East Lansing looked at in a more favorable light than Lansing or other cities in the Lansing area?

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by edsg25

i think if you asked a lot of people which what they think would be the best city in southeast Michigan, a lot would say Ann Arbor instead of Detroit.

In the Lansing area, is East Lansing looked at in a more favorable light than Lansing or other cities in the Lansing area?

I'd say 'yes', but East Lansing isn't much more than just Michigan State University and some immediate businesses that cater to them.

Ann Arbor is more of an actual 'large town' which indudes UM.

Because East Lansing is basically only Michigan State University, it means that Lansing doesn't really get that 'college feel' at all....and East Lansing kind of has a 'suburban' feel.

[edsg25]

forgive me if i make an observation that may sound silly and be open to ridicule.

the question here is why can't L/EL be another Madison or Austin. These two are places where the state capital and the state's flagship public university mix to create an incredible environment that just isn't the norm in a city their size (and don't forget that Austin's appeal was very much there when it was a much smaller city).

one way that L/EL could benefit from creating such a mix of campus and government is to fully recognize MSU as an equal flagship to U-M. I've said before on this forum i would consider MSU to be such an institution and by any ranking, it is up there with the better public universities in the nation.

so why not make it official and pull a tOSU. Why not become The Michigan State University (for the record, FSU gets the "The" along with UF down in Fla). Michigan is fortunate to have two such stellar flagship institutions. by nailing the idea officially in ways that could include that very tMSU, it elevates both university and community and encourages the type of clustering that occurs with the state govt. and the state u. in the same place.

[michigan83]

Originally Posted by edsg25

forgive me if i make an observation that may sound silly and be open to ridicule.

the question here is why can't L/EL be another Madison or Austin. These two are places where the state capital and the state's flagship public university mix to create an incredible environment that just isn't the norm in a city their size (and don't forget that Austin's appeal was very much there when it was a much smaller city).

one way that L/EL could benefit from creating such a mix of campus and government is to fully recognize MSU as an equal flagship to U-M. I've said before on this forum i would consider MSU to be such an institution and by any ranking, it is up there with the better public universities in the nation.

so why not make it official and pull a tOSU. Why not become The Michigan State University (for the record, FSU gets the "The" along with UF down in Fla). Michigan is fortunate to have two such stellar flagship institutions. by nailing the idea officially in ways that could include that very tMSU, it elevates both university and community and encourages the type of clustering that occurs with the state govt. and the state u. in the same place.

That's a nice idea, but I don't think that adding the word "the" will change the perception of MSU a whole lot. Everyone in Michigan already views UM and MSU as the "top two" universities in the state. Depending on who you talk to, it might be one or the other. It's MSU, UM, and then everyone else.

To be honest, I didn't realize that the word "The" was an official part of the name of OSU until just recently. And it didn't change my perception of OSU at all. I already knew that it was the flagship school in Ohio. Anyone who follows sports already knows that.

[Sharks With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I wonder if it could be somewhat marketing. If there was 'critical mass' of people like on to Austin or Madison coming for completely different reasons than just to attend college. Than it seems like there would be a lot of great areas right on or off Michigan Avenue that could fill in nicely with some interesting entpreneurship.

It just seems like the ingredients are there...but without anyone there interested in Lansing or thinking of Lansing in that way, it'll remain just as strongly stagnant as it seems to be now.

I do think some of it is publicity related. That being said:

1. Lansing has different demographics than Austin or Madison. Its roots are much more blue-collar, and the blue-collar residents have a lot more influence on policies.

2. I'm not sure it's exactly healthy to be like Austin. In 1950, Austin had a population of 132,459. In 2011, it was estimated to be 820,611, a growth rate of about 520%! Madison has been a bit more reasonable, increasing from 96,056 in 1950 to 236,901 estimated in 2011 (about 147%.) The U.S. has grown about 107% during this period, and Lansing only grew about 24% (from 92,129 in 1950 to an estimated 114,605 in 2010.) But basically, I would say that Austin's growth rate in many ways is just as alarming as the population decline in Detroit, for example. It's extremely high compared to the rest of the country.

[Tiger Beer]

Actually I think if Lansing just had a 'city center' or a 'downtown' of some type....it would benefit it greatly. Some focal point.