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Well, in a way things are worse now than in the Great Depression. The National debt is much higher even after adjusting the numbers for inflation. Individual debt is also much higher -- people didn't have the ability to put themselves in debt via Credit Cards or lines of credit from their house back during the Depression. Individuals might have felt the sting of it more because of all the social programs now but those programs are also one of the reasons we have all of this debt. I don't see a way out of the current one that our politicians would find acceptable. Printing more money and more borrowing will just ultimately make things worse. But then again, the government just made things worse last time so you can't really expect anything better this time around.
And yes it will be worse if things get bad. Right now no one has to relocated unless they make that choice to do so, but a great number of people look at their unemployment check and decide working doesn't make good financial sense because the government pays them more for sitting around then it would pay to work for lower wages. A lot of people are jobless because they still figure they'll get hired again in their field, their unemployment checks are quite high and they'd lose out if they actually accepted a job. That's not how depressions are - but government handouts has changed the normal dynamic.
In this so-called depression or recession, spending is still sky high and the government is spending like there is no tomorrow. Unemployment and welfare programs maintain a high standard of living so you don't see people wearing old shoes or lining coats with newspapers, the government provides heating assistance for all who need or want it - so there isn't anything close to the typical depression.
In the previous depression, 30% unemployment rates didn't mean virtually all of that 30% still getting a sizeable monthly income and it didn't mean hundreds of dollars worth of food stamps, it meant soup lines and gardents.
The depression of the 1930's and the one going on right are similar but there is more things that are different. The one thing is all the talk of the up and coming jobs that have not come along and all the talk of this business or that business is not the silver bullet that is going to end much of anything. Business is business and they are in it to make a profit as big as they can so moving jobs outside the US is key because labor is low cost and they get more from there where ever the jobs end up. Add to that where are all these jobs we have lost going to come from and from what some are saying those are lost and the good paying with good benefits is a thing of the past for many not all but many. It is like what happened to all the pensions and retirement plans many had with their employment. They are all but gone these days. It is just a sign of the times. They were talking about 10 years ago you would have to change careers atleast 4 maybe 5 times through a persons life from now on no one accepted that but it is closer to reality. Especially as college & universities costs to attend are skyrocketing, great idea but many won't have the money to attend or return to school.
Seems most of the answers the politicians and others have are ones that again only some can take advantage of. They are marketing Green Jobs as well as other industries but too many are out of work and don't have the skill set to get many of these jobs so that again leaves many behind... As for unemployment compensation it is not all that great about 3/5 of what some normally make. It was just to help hold someone over till they found another job maybe 6 to 9 months and one would be back to work making enough to live on but these days it is the low pay jobs that are there and many aren't even full time. What is good choice for a career of the future they seem to push this and that but only a small percentage are doing that and where are all these great paying w/benefit dream jobs that some talk about... I have yet to find one of those... Been looking for 31 years now...
It is tough out there job searching, doin whatever one can to bring a dollar home and that is just another issue... Some finding some at low cost help them with their business but they are not willing to put you on the payroll because it does not benefit too...
It is going to be a long time before thing really get turned around some won't make it that long some will but will be spending every penny to survive and some will just keep on doing what they do and not see any effect to thei lives... But it is hitting us hard here in Michigan as well as other places across the US... I hope that those that need a job can find one that will make it easier on them maybe one day some will see a better future but for many of us we can't see it...
We still have an economy where people are camping outside of stores on the eve of Black Friday, and you see every preteen texting away like mad on their nice cell phones with cameras - unlimited texting. People eat out every other night. Big screen televisions are selling well, people have cable and internet -- many luxuries they don't even realize are luxuries. The Walmarts are packed full of shoppers running over each other with shopping carts.
That's not anything like the Great Depression. Kids back then were happy to wake up Christmas morning and have an orange in their Christmas stockings and and didn't expect all the latest electronic gadgets and games. I don't believe the government was giving extension after extension of unemployment checks or $8000 giveaways to buy houses, or $4000 to buy cars with all the latest options. People back then were putting newspapers to line their coats and jackets, they wore shoes with holes, their children wore hand-me-downs. You sure don't see any of that going on today.
As far as Black Friday goes, those people are choosing to spend time camping out in front of the stores in the hopes of saving a couple bucks instead of spending time with their families. If they were doing well economically they would put more value on spending time with their families. Also, many people are living off of savings, money earned in the past during better times.
I understand what you're saying. I don't think we have seen the effects of the Depression come full circle yet and it has only barely just begun. Things are going to get much worse as more and more people lose their homes and as a decreasing percentage of the population is employed and in possession of solid middle class jobs. (Remember, even if the nation does add 10,000 net new jobs in one month it is, in actuality, a loss of about 140,000 jobs relative to population growth.) Also, what is going to happen when people's unemployment benefits run out in mass?
Well, in a way things are worse now than in the Great Depression. The National debt is much higher even after adjusting the numbers for inflation. Individual debt is also much higher -- people didn't have the ability to put themselves in debt via Credit Cards or lines of credit from their house back during the Depression.
This is an excellent point that hadn't occurred to me. During the Great Depression many people may have had a near-zero asset value. Today many people have a negative asset value--many people have debt, including non-dischargeable student loan debt, and that debt only becomes much worse when you are unable to keep up with it; at least credit card debt can be discharged. Thus, many Americans are liable to find themselves living as debt slaves even if the economy improves a little bit.
As far as Black Friday goes, those people are choosing to spend time camping out in front of the stores in the hopes of saving a couple bucks instead of spending time with their families. If they were doing well economically they would put more value on spending time with their families. Also, many people are living off of savings, money earned in the past during better times.
I understand what you're saying. I don't think we have seen the effects of the Depression come full circle yet and it has only barely just begun. Things are going to get much worse as more and more people lose their homes and as a decreasing percentage of the population is employed and in possession of solid middle class jobs. (Remember, even if the nation does add 10,000 net new jobs in one month it is, in actuality, a loss of about 140,000 jobs relative to population growth.) Also, what is going to happen when people's unemployment benefits run out in mass?
I agree things could get a lot worse, it's just that we haven't seen anything like the depression of the 1920s yet. We're far from that but maybe if the government were to stop giving unemployment extensions, then we'd begin to see something like that generation saw.
When it's a depression, the malls aren't going to be crammed full of people buying like there's tomorrow and they wouldn't have much to buy even if they had the money. People back then didn't lose their jobs and count on the government to keep on paying them to not work, and there was no unemployment that let you decide it was more profitable to go on not working than take minimum wage jobs or work for cash picking fruit. People today still don't know what hardship really is.
If someone broke their leg in 1930 vs. someone who broke their leg in 2010, the person in 1930 would experience more pain, after seeing the doctor, than a person today. Why? It’s because we have learned to MASK pain (via new drugs) better than they could in the 30’s. Hence, one should not attempt to measure condition by PAIN ALONE. (I am sure that there is a better analogy...however). Just because one feels less pain is not an indication that one true condition is better than one feeling more pain.
In my opinion we are near depression level conditions in America and those conditions are simply being MASKED by ever increasing debt. We are injecting too much morphine in order to hide the pain so that politicians can get elected or reelected by demonstrating that they are addressing or mitigating the pain, when in reality they are making the situation worse. It does not matter the Party either. Elections are always about the economy when times get tough and hence politicians come with their dope…..as opposed to cures and if there is no cure then they lack the courage to tell the people that….out of fear that the people will reject them in disbelief. So they dope up the nation and encourage the nation to continue profligate economic behavior.
Pain serves a PURPOSE in nature. Its a signal that something is WRONG. When you continue to mask pain, instead of dealing with its causes, you are only making the situation worse. In my opinion, there is NO CURE for what is inflicting America. Its not Terminal, however. What it means is that we have to accept a much lower standard of living instead of trying to mask the downward shift with debt. Its the masking of the pain that potentially makes the situation terminal.
Let me correct my post above ^. The structural conditions today are WORSE than during the Great Depression. What made the Great Depression what it was....was PANIC. Economics is as much a self fulfilling prophecy as it is anything else and there is a bit of Ponzi scheme built into our capitalistic system. In other words, the system is built upon confidence and momentum of consumers/citizens. So when confidence wanes and panic ensues, it creates a reverse momentum that creates conditions far worse than they structurally need be. That is what happened in the early 20th century Depression. However today, the panic is much less even though the structural problems are greater than in the 30’s. The panic is less because the pain is being mitigated by debt.
per OP
neither--- its a contaction of the economy. we are 70% consumer economy, a large chunk of which is sheer amusement. as we become a needs based instead of a consumption based economy many businesses will die.
probably not your best time for a house car or education based on large amounts of debt. disturbing trends-- house farming instead of food farming, heavy investment in tourist industry by large cities. millions giving up their homes to AIG, blind to the fact that they will never be home owners again.
Yeah, we are in the modern depression.It is too severe to call it a recession.We know what has happened,but we do not know what is going to happen and that is the scary part.This is not just Michigan,but probably most of the entire country.I think it is time to stock up on grain and cheese.It would help us americans if gas prices were low and if greed levels werent so high.
As i get the bigger picture of the reality,i think i will be non commited to a lot of things.
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