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Not specific to the military but if one thinks they are "underpaid", why on Earth would they keep working where they are instead of finding a job they feel better about? In addition to military, other professions commonly mentioned as "underpaid" are teachers, lower level medical professionals (Eg. CNAs), police officer, and first responders. I realize that pay isn't everything so there may be other reasons why people stick with jobs such as the enjoyment of their work, but I always say to anyone who isn't happy with their current job: "QUIT and find something that will make you happier. Unless of course you have no alternative but to stick with your current job and keep complaining about it."
In our capitalist economy, pay rates should generally match with supply and demand. If you stick with a job that you feel you are underpaid, that says more about you than your job.
Not specific to the military but if one thinks they are "underpaid", why on Earth would they keep working where they are instead of finding a job they feel better about? In addition to military, other professions commonly mentioned as "underpaid" are teachers, lower level medical professionals (Eg. CNAs), police officer, and first responders. I realize that pay isn't everything so there may be other reasons why people stick with jobs such as the enjoyment of their work, but I always say to anyone who isn't happy with their current job: "QUIT and find something that will make you happier. Unless of course you have no alternative but to stick with your current job and keep complaining about it."
That was where I was for years.
I hated my job, but, at first for the first six years they were going to pay for me to get a four-year degree.
The next time around, I re-enlisted focusing on the 20-year pension. Knowing the career field is "low pay", we decided to focus on extreme thrift and studying the IRS tax codes to figure out methods to avoid being required to pay income taxes.
It worked. In a career field known for its "low pay" and which I hated, we amassed a huge Net Worth.
When I finally reached my retirement date, I was shocked when we did the math to figure out our Net Worth.
Hell today, I have been on pension for 20 years as of this month.
I hated my job, but, at first for the first six years they were going to pay for me to get a four-year degree.
The next time around, I re-enlisted focusing on the 20-year pension. Knowing the career field is "low pay", we decided to focus on extreme thrift and studying the IRS tax codes to figure out methods to avoid being required to pay income taxes.
It worked. In a career field known for its "low pay" and which I hated, we amassed a huge Net Worth.
When I finally reached my retirement date, I was shocked when we did the math to figure out our Net Worth.
Hell today, I have been on pension for 20 years as of this month.
Glad it worked out for you. I worked for government so I know that the take home pay, at least in my field is generally lower than the private sector but with all the benefits, I wouldn't be surprised if total compensation is higher than the private sector. Literally about half of my take home pay goes to my mortgage. If I rented my place, my rent would be similar to my mortgage. If my employer paid for my housing it would be like a 50% raise for me. So the military housing allowance, along with the pension, is a huge benefit that's part of the total compensation package. Where else can someone with only a high school education receive total compensation similar to being in the military? Not many places I'd assume.
There was a story a few months ago about military members being "food insecure". These were mostly lower ranking enlisted, probably late teens to early 20s, with children. My immediate thought was: why are you having a family at such a young age without financial security first? Most people with only a high school education a few years out of school would also struggle if they had kids at that age. I know I would have, and I have a college degree. Personal responsibility comes into play here.
For the most part, working for the government won't get you rich, but you can be very comfortable if you plan everything out right.
One mistake civilians make, is that they see military personnel as a monolithic group. They have a stereotypical image of what a service member does. This comes into play when discussing the value of pay. The truth is service members represent many occupations, most with a civilian equivalent. The value of pay is determined by how much a member can make in the civilian market. Some occupations pay more in the private sector, than they do in the military, some don't. Some military skills require additional education and training in the civilian world, in order to get certification. There's many variables.
As I think I responded earlier in this thread, the most basic level of comparison, is to take an 18 year old high school graduate with no skills, and compare a military pay package, to what this individual can make in the civilian market. Even with escalating minimum wage laws, it's still not even close.
This sort of statement always brings out a guy who was an E-1 in 1957, and they give an anecdotal story about how broke they were. A non-discussion, different time, different place.
I retired 27 years ago, just out of curiosity, I looked at what the 20 year retirement pay is for someone in my pay grade retiring in 2022. I was both astounded and envious.
Glad it worked out for you. I worked for government so I know that the take home pay, at least in my field is generally lower than the private sector but with all the benefits, I wouldn't be surprised if total compensation is higher than the private sector. Literally about half of my take home pay goes to my mortgage. If I rented my place, my rent would be similar to my mortgage. If my employer paid for my housing it would be like a 50% raise for me. So the military housing allowance, along with the pension, is a huge benefit that's part of the total compensation package. Where else can someone with only a high school education receive total compensation similar to being in the military? Not many places I'd assume.
There was a story a few months ago about military members being "food insecure". These were mostly lower ranking enlisted, probably late teens to early 20s, with children. My immediate thought was: why are you having a family at such a young age without financial security first? Most people with only a high school education a few years out of school would also struggle if they had kids at that age. I know I would have, and I have a college degree. Personal responsibility comes into play here.
For the most part, working for the government won't get you rich, but you can be very comfortable if you plan everything out right.
+1 Most financial problems of service members are self-imposed. Some media outlets like to promote the victim card, as it pertains to service members. The married 20 year old E-3, with 3 kids, is their go to source. Finding a single mom is even better.
Don't know if you saw the recs from the MCRMC commission. They are basically throwing "working-age" retirees on to Obamacare if this goes through. Nice, hugh? Glad we gave almost 30 years thinking the one worry we would not have was medical care.
We always find money to "help" illegals and refugees, not to mention any loser country wanting a dime.
Healthcare for military retirees between retirement date and Medicare eligibility is a crap shoot. Not unusual for second careerists, to enroll in their employers insurance.
Healthcare for military retirees between retirement date and Medicare eligibility is a crap shoot. Not unusual for second careerists, to enroll in their employers insurance.
I must disagree.
I could not have asked for a better healthcare insurance.
Every doctors office, every specialist, and every hospital welcomes me. I have even seen physicians who were 'out-of-network' and all it took was for me to call the insurance and they put the physician into the network while still on the phone with me.
During my twenty two years in the Navy I never had any complaints about my pay and benefits. In the mid to late 70's when I was a young E-3/E-4 I saw my peers that were married with kids struggling financially. I had no desire for that and consequently remained single and lived in the barracks or on board ship. Later, I got married as an E-5. My then wife was attending college full time and working part time as a server in a restaurant. In spite of the fact we were stationed in Ventura County California we did just fine. My wife and I did nothing special we just lived within our means. I spent most of my career in high cost areas that including three tours in California, a tour in Everett, Washington and Naval Air Station South Weymouth just outside of Boston. We never lived in base housing nor did we shop much at the commissary or exchange on base. I didn't purchase a home until near the end of my career because I didn't want the hassles of selling a home when I was preparing for a PCS move.
As a leading petty officer and division chief I counseled numerous Sailors because of their indebtedness. In nearly all cases their financial misfortunes were quite preventable. In most cases you don't make a living wage to support a family until you make E-5. Even then it can be hardship particularly if your spouse doesn't work and you're stationed in a high cost area. I've been retired for nearly two decades. When I did retire from the Navy we had a nice nest egg saved, we each had a Thrift Savings account and other then our mortgage no consumer debt. I retired young enough to have a second career in law enforcement and earn another pension. I retired completely three years ago and life is quite good. In retrospect the military could do a better job in counseling recruits about their finances before they actually get sworn in and then again once they're in boot camp. Financial responsibility courses would be more valuable than much of the absurd equity training that military personnel are currently being subjected to. This would save everyone a lot of aggravation and lost man hours.
Last edited by irishcopper; 03-20-2022 at 02:11 PM..
Healthcare for military retirees between retirement date and Medicare eligibility is a crap shoot. Not unusual for second careerists, to enroll in their employers insurance.
Not in my case. I use TRICARE Select and have no complaints.
One mistake civilians make, is that they see military personnel as a monolithic group. They have a stereotypical image of what a service member does. This comes into play when discussing the value of pay. The truth is service members represent many occupations, most with a civilian equivalent. The value of pay is determined by how much a member can make in the civilian market. Some occupations pay more in the private sector, than they do in the military, some don't. Some military skills require additional education and training in the civilian world, in order to get certification. There's many variables.
As I think I responded earlier in this thread, the most basic level of comparison, is to take an 18 year old high school graduate with no skills, and compare a military pay package, to what this individual can make in the civilian market. Even with escalating minimum wage laws, it's still not even close.
This sort of statement always brings out a guy who was an E-1 in 1957, and they give an anecdotal story about how broke they were. A non-discussion, different time, different place.
I retired 27 years ago, just out of curiosity, I looked at what the 20 year retirement pay is for someone in my pay grade retiring in 2022. I was both astounded and envious.
Yep, you just described me. In 1957, I was an E3 walking guard in Korea, up to my butt in snow on a
Saturday night and thinking I am underpaid.
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