U.S. Military is Underpaid Myth... (to rent, rich, vacation, school)
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The military doesn't pay for families medical, dental and vision "in full".
The services military members do get does not always compare to the quality that civilians get. Civilians also have a choice in who provides their care. Most military and their families do not. Heck, I am retired and don't get a choice.
Don't know if you saw the recs from the MCRMC commission. They are basically throwing "working-age" retirees on to Obamacare if this goes through. Nice, hugh? Glad we gave almost 30 years thinking the one worry we would not have was medical care.
We always find money to "help" illegals and refugees, not to mention any loser country wanting a dime.
Most E3's don't get to draw BAH unless they are married. The majority of E3's are not married so let's not get carried away. My son is a married E4 and makes nowhere near $50k. He makes around $35k gross and when you figure the hours he works is is about $10/hour. Much less than his civilian counterparts doing the same job.
This doesn't take into account the 10 months he was deployed overseas last year which would make the hourly rate laughable.
But, to be fair, your son still has healthcare mostly covered and still has paid for housing, right? When you factor in healthcare and housing benefits (even if your son was an unmarried E3, he still would have paid for base housing, right?), your son's total compensation package is much greater than $35k. And this doesn't even get into the part of his pay is tax free. But, as I mentioned before, taking out housing benefits in this equation doesn't make sense to me as housing is a necessity of life. The housing allowance your son gets represents money he doesn't have to spend out of pocket, which makes his actual take home pay take on new meaning. I'm also curious to know your son's educational level. As I've also mentioned before, it's a bit disingenuous to state that military members are earning considerably less than their civilian counterparts without accounting for BAH and for the fact that many enlisted members are doing work that they wouldn't be "qualified" for in the civilian world due to education levels, etc. Now this may not be your son's situation, but I find it true for many.
Also, when you start to look at salaried employee's pay in the civilian world vs. how many hours they actually put into the job, their hourly pay is much lower than it reads on paper! This is especially true in this economy as more jobs are being consolidated and people are doing the work individually that was previously shared among several employees.
By the way, I thank your son and every other military service member for their service.
But, to be fair, your son still has healthcare mostly covered and still has paid for housing, right? When you factor in healthcare and housing benefits (even if your son was an unmarried E3, he still would have paid for base housing, right?), your son's total compensation package is much greater than $35k.
Yes, the health care. Single at the rank generally they are provided housing and generally provided meals in military dining facilities. Housing allowance is based on the area he is stationed. It has been greatly improved over the years, of course talk of it changing.
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Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
And this doesn't even get into the part of his pay is tax free.
Basic pay is fully taxed (unless in a combat zone)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
As I've also mentioned before, it's a bit disingenuous to state that military members are earning considerably less than their civilian counterparts
I tend to agree, I have no complaints, I am retired military. I possibly could have done better, or worse. I the situation came up again, in today's world, I would do it again, with some minor changes...
But, to be fair, your son still has healthcare mostly covered and still has paid for housing, right? When you factor in healthcare and housing benefits (even if your son was an unmarried E3, he still would have paid for base housing, right?), your son's total compensation package is much greater than $35k. And this doesn't even get into the part of his pay is tax free. But, as I mentioned before, taking out housing benefits in this equation doesn't make sense to me as housing is a necessity of life. The housing allowance your son gets represents money he doesn't have to spend out of pocket, which makes his actual take home pay take on new meaning. I'm also curious to know your son's educational level. As I've also mentioned before, it's a bit disingenuous to state that military members are earning considerably less than their civilian counterparts without accounting for BAH and for the fact that many enlisted members are doing work that they wouldn't be "qualified" for in the civilian world due to education levels, etc. Now this may not be your son's situation, but I find it true for many.
Also, when you start to look at salaried employee's pay in the civilian world vs. how many hours they actually put into the job, their hourly pay is much lower than it reads on paper! This is especially true in this economy as more jobs are being consolidated and people are doing the work individually that was previously shared among several employees.
By the way, I thank your son and every other military service member for their service.
No on the "free housing"...he has a rent payment every month out of that $35k gross as it includes his BAH.
As I've said before on this forum...I'm an HR Director and see what civilians make and the hours they work. I've not seen anyone work the hours I did or my son does when we are deployed or underway. My son just did 10 months 24/7 at sea working seven days a week, 12-16 hour days. I did the same thing when I was a junior Sailor on the ship.
Figure the hourly wage on those 10 months please. Oh, during that time he did get $250/month family separation pay. So he was making $38,000 annually, living on a ship at sea working those hours. Please explain how it is disingenuous to say they make less than their civilian counterparts?
No on the "free housing"...he has a rent payment every month out of that $35k gross as it includes his BAH.
As I've said before on this forum...I'm an HR Director and see what civilians make and the hours they work. I've not seen anyone work the hours I did or my son does when we are deployed or underway. My son just did 10 months 24/7 at sea working seven days a week, 12-16 hour days. I did the same thing when I was a junior Sailor on the ship.
Figure the hourly wage on those 10 months please. Oh, during that time he did get $250/month family separation pay. So he was making $38,000 annually, living on a ship at sea working those hours. Please explain how it is disingenuous to say they make less than their civilian counterparts?
It's pretty much impossible to make 35k gross as a married e4 on Sea duty.
No on the "free housing"...he has a rent payment every month out of that $35k gross as it includes his BAH.
As I've said before on this forum...I'm an HR Director and see what civilians make and the hours they work. I've not seen anyone work the hours I did or my son does when we are deployed or underway. My son just did 10 months 24/7 at sea working seven days a week, 12-16 hour days. I did the same thing when I was a junior Sailor on the ship.
Figure the hourly wage on those 10 months please. Oh, during that time he did get $250/month family separation pay. So he was making $38,000 annually, living on a ship at sea working those hours. Please explain how it is disingenuous to say they make less than their civilian counterparts?
My friend is an HR analyst/consultant at Deloitte and earned $45,000 per year starting out (he makes more now). He regularly put in 60-70 hours a week, Monday through Friday, and even worked some Saturdays. No, its not as many hours as your son worked while on deployment, but, my point is when you factor in time hours actually worked, he still wasn't earning that much per hour, but was working quite a bit. But he put in that time because that is what was expected of him if he wanted to move up. This isn't out of the norm for many in the private/civilian sector. Of course, there are many private/civilian sector jobs that have a much higher hourly rate when all things are factored in (especially government civilian jobs), but even many of those jobs require a certain education level or education + work experience (again, your son may have the qualifications for those civilian jobs--I don't know as you didn't touch on that--but many enlisted members do not, which makes the comparison a bit unfair). Note, while some private and public sector jobs are technically open to those without college experience if they can prove they have relevant work experience that qualifies them for the job, I'm finding that, in reality, due to competition, etc., those lacking certain education qualifications most often find themselves on the outside looking in for those opportunities.
Not questioning your numbers, but can you give a better breakdown of your son's time in the military and what city he's stationed? Also, apart from being married, how many children does he have, if any? I'm just trying to wrap my mind around that take-home pay figure + BAH, especially taking into account any typical deductions and tax credits for income tax purposes (and is BAH taxed?). Of course, as I've mentioned before, the total compensation package also includes generous healthcare benefits.
If your comparison point is civilian DoD workers (I assume so as you mentioned that you were once a junior sailor on a ship), I can't speak to that; I'm talking about civilian work in the private sector more so.
Still, as I mentioned before, its a bit disingenuous to make the points you're making in this conversation without mentioning education level. As I've written before, many in the military (and I'm referring to enlisted members here, of course) often don't have the educational qualifications to obtain the same type of work outside of the military. So, in all actuality, many would be working far greater hours at a lower hourly rate at a menial job outside of the military to even come close to the military compensation rate. And this doesn't even get into health care and other benefits, which are often lacking at these other jobs.
Note, I don't make these points about education to disparage anyone; in fact, I've often found that many enlisted members have a lot more common sense and are sharper than many civilian workers. And this doesn't even get into the fact that many enlisted members have a great deal of formal education. I'm just stating what I know.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 02-08-2015 at 10:31 PM..
Basic pay is fully taxed (unless in a combat zone)
What about other allowances, including housing allowances? Are those taxed, either in full or in part? I'm pretty sure that BAH isn't taxed, either at the state of federal level (I could be incorrect about this, though), which is something to further consider when discussing compensation/whether military members are underpaid.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 02-08-2015 at 10:37 PM..
An e-4 with two years of service is 2122.80 in base pay alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
What about other allowances, including housing allowances? Are those taxed, either in full or in part? I'm pretty sure that BAH isn't taxed, either at the state of federal level (I could be incorrect about this, though), which is something to further consider when discussing compensation/whether military members are underpaid.
The only thing that is taxed is base pay.
Last edited by Pyramidsurf; 02-09-2015 at 05:41 AM..
What about other allowances, including housing allowances? Are those taxed, either in full or in part? I'm pretty sure that BAH isn't taxed, either at the state of federal level (I could be incorrect about this, though), which is something to further consider when discussing compensation/whether military members are underpaid.
Housing allowance is "Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH)" and it is not taxed. It is based on the geographic duty location, the pay grade, and dependency status, basically married or single.
An E-1 with dependents where we live (zip 87144) is $1197.00 per month. Our 3br 2bath mortgage payment is less than that... You can check the rates here: Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH)
You were also thinking of Basic Allowance for Subsistence (BAS) is not taxed, it is meant to offset costs for a member's meals, which is based in the historic origins of the military in which the military provided room and board/rations as part of a member's pay. BAS is linked to the price of food and is adjusted each year. The BAS effective Jan. 1, 2009 was $323.87 per month for enlisted members: Basic Allowance for Subsistence (BAS)
There are various additional pay such as Hostile Fire and Imminent Danger Pay currently $225 / month. CONUS COLA Payment, Flight Pay (Crew Member), Career Enlisted Flyer Incentive Pay, Diving Duty Pay, Hardship Duty Pay, Foreign Language Proficiency Pay, Family Separation Allowance and more. Not taxed. There is an unofficial list and sample tax advantage chart for an E-4 with family with tax advantage listed is $48,946: Military Enlisted Pay Breakdown | Military.com
Those are facts. Is the military for everyone? No. Would I do it again (22 years)? Yes.
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