Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Because the truth is the Marines demanded a spot in the fight. And don't forget, when they got to Fallujah and Ramadi, they needed 1st Bde of the 1st ID.
I guess there are two ways to look at the inter-service rivalry claims. One is on the total force level that the Army needed to rotate home some Guardsmen or maybe there being fewer paratroopers and Rangers than Marines needed to pull their rapid deployment assets for possible uses. So the Marines should also kick in and stop waiting for a beach to storm.
Then there is the we are better than you argument and a unit is saying send us Marines and not the X Army or other nation's brigade because we trust the Marines more. But in actuality it probably came down to Marines being closest and not in heavy contact at the time or secondarily the closest Army unit was heavier in tanks and more infantrymen were needed or some variation of that.
I do remember from Korean War histories that one Army Regiment and the Marine Brigade were trusted fire brigade units in the Pusan Perimeter and other units were expected to crack under the North Korean assault.
The Navy is arguably the greatest deployable force in the world. They can rapidly deploy significant force in a very short time, and sustain it indefinitely, that makes for a very flexible, and rapid tool to deploy on an every changing battlefield with real time intel, changing conditions, etc.
This is just in general sense. There are more factors of course. Now days coordination is pretty close, and yes, the missions overlap and they even do joint missions/battles together. You have SEALs with those USAF spec op guys, using USAF spec op helicopters. You got the Marines jointly attacking a city with the Army. This also spreads the burden more, allowing more troop rotation.
And it's not just SEALs, either. My husband has been in the Navy 18 years, and has been in deserts exponentially more frequently than he's been on water.
Forgive my civilian ignorance, but I was wondering why it seems like the Marines/Seals operate so much in what seems like Army territory. From what I've read, the Marines were created to support Navy operations like ship boarding/security and beach landings. The Seals similarly.
But from watching the Iraq and Afghanistan wars as well as Vietnam it looks like the Marines mostly overlap with the Army. Is this just about sharing the available man-power while there's no major Naval operations? Were the Marines assigned to attack certain places in Iraq/etc instead of the Army for any particular reason?
Thanks for any info.
Depends on the unit, their mission, etc. Marine units were very busy. I am just a civilian too, but I lost many friends who were Marines. No, They don't "overlap" with anything.
At one point the Marines took primary control of Afghanistan while letting the Army focus on Iraq. In more than one instance in the history of the Iraq war the Army took control of an area like Haditha Dam from the Marines in a relative level of control. The Marines had to return to get the area back under control. An Nasaria was under Army control, when the 15th MEU was specifically requested to extend past their doctrinal distance from the ARG.
I have my very close friends who were with 1st Battalion, 5th Marine, 3rd Battalion, 11th Marines, Recons, and MARSOC, (There are more, I just can't remember all) these are all legendary war fighters.
I know several Army rangers who respect the Marines very much and one Ranger even said that he understands why Marines are the few the proud.
Depends on the unit, their mission, etc. Marine units were very busy. I am just a civilian too, but I lost many friends who were Marines. No, They don't "overlap" with anything.
At one point the Marines took primary control of Afghanistan while letting the Army focus on Iraq. In more than one instance in the history of the Iraq war the Army took control of an area like Haditha Dam from the Marines in a relative level of control. The Marines had to return to get the area back under control. An Nasaria was under Army control, when the 15th MEU was specifically requested to extend past their doctrinal distance from the ARG.
I have my very close friends who were with 1st Battalion, 5th Marine, 3rd Battalion, 11th Marines, Recons, and MARSOC, (There are more, I just can't remember all) these are all legendary war fighters.
Of course they overlap on many things. The Marines use M1A1 tanks designed and built for the Army and specifically use doctrine written by the Army. This is only one example.
Haditha Dam was initially taken by Army Rangers to prevent Saddam from sabotaging/blowing the dam. Immediately after hostilities "ended", it was given to the Marines as it was in their sector. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Haditha_Dam
Nasiriyah was fought during the invasion of Iraq. The 2nd MEF TF Tarawa took the area after heavy fighting. The 15th MEU relieved the 2nd MEF so that you could occupy Fallujah and Ramadi in force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15th_M...ditionary_Unit
Not sure what you reference about the Marines having "operational control" of Afghanistan?
Of course they overlap on many things. The Marines use M1A1 tanks designed and built for the Army and specifically use doctrine written by the Army. This is only one example.
Haditha Dam was initially taken by Army Rangers to prevent Saddam from sabotaging/blowing the dam. Immediately after hostilities "ended", it was given to the Marines as it was in their sector. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Haditha_Dam
Nasiriyah was fought during the invasion of Iraq. The 2nd MEF TF Tarawa took the area after heavy fighting. The 15th MEU relieved the 2nd MEF so that you could occupy Fallujah and Ramadi in force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15th_M...ditionary_Unit
All of this information is freely available. History is your friend.
Is the bold really necessary?
When I said "They don't overlap with anything", that means they do their own things and do them well and they are darn good war fighters.
Just thought I'd have to make myself clear, just in case somebody read too much into what I posted. AGAIN
The Marines and Army have different roles and capabilities. Also doesnt mean that either can’t take on the other role, just means they will do it differently and may not be as well suites for the treat as the other.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 08-06-2019 at 03:52 PM..
Because the truth is the Marines demanded a spot in the fight. And don't forget, when they got to Fallujah and Ramadi, they needed 1st Bde of the 1st ID.
What does this even mean ? They "Demanded" a spot in the fight ? Please elaborate.
When I said "They don't overlap with anything", that means they do their own things and do them well and they are darn good war fighters.
Just thought I'd have to make myself clear, just in case somebody read too much into what I posted. AGAIN
The Marines and Army have different roles and capabilities. Also doesnt mean that either can’t take on the other role, just means they will do it differently and may not be as well suites for the treat as the other.
You posted several things that were erroneous or just plain wrong. The Marines don't rescue the Army. Both are darn good at what they do.No better or worse than the other.
The role of the Marines and the Army is not nearly the vast difference that it was for the first 200 years of the Corps. The Army works in tandem with the AF and the Marines are part of the Navy. Both have the similar mission of ground takers and holders. Something the Navy and AF can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
What does this even mean ? They "Demanded" a spot in the fight ? Please elaborate.
The initial plans for the ground invasion was to be 101st, 1st Cav, and the 3rd Bde of the 3rd AD who were in Kuwait at the time. The Marines politicked to get the MEF in place of the 1st Cav.
It's not unusual. Each branch of the military wants a piece of the action in order to insure they aren't seen as irrelevant. Hence, the Marine amphibious landing in Kuwait or Somalia. No tactical need, but it showed the capability to perform the maneuver.
You posted several things that were erroneous or just plain wrong. The Marines don't rescue the Army. Both are darn good at what they do.No better or worse than the other.
The role of the Marines and the Army is not nearly the vast difference that it was for the first 200 years of the Corps. The Army works in tandem with the AF and the Marines are part of the Navy. Both have the similar mission of ground takers and holders. Something the Navy and AF can't.
The initial plans for the ground invasion was to be 101st, 1st Cav, and the 3rd Bde of the 3rd AD who were in Kuwait at the time. The Marines politicked to get the MEF in place of the 1st Cav.
It's not unusual. Each branch of the military wants a piece of the action in order to insure they aren't seen as irrelevant. Hence, the Marine amphibious landing in Kuwait or Somalia. No tactical need, but it showed the capability to perform the maneuver.
What are you talking about? I never said Marines rescue the Army. I never said one is better, the other one is worse. I am not that kind of civilian.
This is what I said
At one point the Marines took primary control of Afghanistan while letting the Army focus on Iraq. In more than one instance in the history of the Iraq war the Army took control of an area like Haditha Dam from the Marines in a relative level of control. The Marines had to return to get the area back under control. An Nasaria was under Army control, when the 15th MEU was specifically requested to extend past their doctrinal distance from the ARG.
I have my very close friends who were with 1st Battalion, 5th Marine, 3rd Battalion, 11th Marines, Recons, and MARSOC, (There are more, I just can't remember all) these are all legendary war fighters.
I think maybe the bold = Marine recuses the army to you? well, that is not what I meant at all. That just means they BOTH do their jobs well. I even said "In more than one instance in the history of the Iraq war the Army took control of an area like Haditha Dam from the Marines in a relative level of control."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
... 
