why dont they build more public transportation to more suburbs (Minneapolis: transfer, subsidized)

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by knke0204

If 494 was expanded to 3 lanes from the MG split down to 394, it's not like someone who currently doesn't drive is going to just say "hmm well I'm going to drive now, just because there are more lanes"

YES, it DOES mean that. That's exactly what induced demand is! You remind me of the people who deny climate change because they "just know" that humans couldn't cause it. Whatever. I don't care whether you choose to believe the research.

[Beenhere4ever]

Originally Posted by golfgal

494/696 is a main transit route and also the bulk of the Twin Cities Metro employers have their offices on or very near this ring. Even if everyone lived near their office, there is still a need for adequate lanes on this ring as well as 94 and 35, both of which are main routes not only for employment but general travel for trucking goods, etc. A very small fraction of the metro area works in Minneapolis, as has been discussed many times before. Options have been given here to reduce cars for suburban employment but people here don't see the need--so either put in a reliable transit system along 494-696 and 94 and 35 or add more lanes. You can't have it both ways.

That's a developer's dream. They are suffering from their own success. But now prospective home buyers have to face the reality of gridlock. And that probably adversely affects the value of properties that buyers bought thinking gridlock would be somehow avoided. Maybe the answer is to tax those properties to pay for more transportation. But even highway engineers are retreating from the notion of "build more capacity". I think suburbanites are just gonna have to start voting for moderate legislators who ignore land developers in favor of those who are already out there. Build park n ride facilities and transit systems to pick them up. If people live in Apple Valley and work in Bloomington, what says they can't park in some central location in Apple Valley and ride to Bloomington. I've paid many visits to the Seattle area where people are doing that. They live in a geography that simply won't allow bigger freeways. So they've been rational. Here in Minnesota, people see the wide open tracts of land and think "more highway lanes". But only in far flung suburbs. Closer to town, people get tired of freeways being driven through land that is already developed.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Globe199

YES, it DOES mean that. That's exactly what induced demand is! You remind me of the people who deny climate change because they "just know" that humans couldn't cause it. Whatever. I don't care whether you choose to believe the research.

Of course there is increased demand but it's not just because people move to the suburbs. The TC Metro has added over a million people since the 494/694 ring was build--with 2 lanes. That is a LOT of new people. Future growth predictions are for another million in the next 20 years. That is a lot of people. The current system can't handle that many people, period.

[Pisces69]

Too many clusters of commercial buildings in the suburbs and too spread out. You'd have to run too many lines to cover everything.

Even light rail stops in bloomington, only works for a couple office buildings and the mall. Everything else is too spread out, LRT to Ikea is over a 1.2 mile walk for example (over 20 minute walk). Walking trips over 20 minutes are not conducive to walking. 1/4 mile is ideal since that is a 5 minute walk.

[Beenhere4ever]

As I said, park n rides with minimal routes running to the furthest extension of the urban transit is what is practical. Wayzata has park n ride. They get it.

[RogersParkGuy]

Originally Posted by jayhopethismeeturstandard

id use that

2 main reasons:

1) While the Federal Interstate Highway Trust Fund can pay as much as 90% of the cost of highway construction, funds for public transit have to be raised locally. That creates a tremendous disincentive for states and local communities to invest in public transit.

2) While many suburbanites rely on nearby cities for employment, they view those same cities as cesspools and their residents as sketchy. Efforts to link suburbs to urban centers via public transit have often met with fierce resistance from suburban residents, who don't want city dwellers to have easy access to their suburban enclaves.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Pisces69

Too many clusters of commercial buildings in the suburbs and too spread out. You'd have to run too many lines to cover everything.

Even light rail stops in bloomington, only works for a couple office buildings and the mall. Everything else is too spread out, LRT to Ikea is over a 1.2 mile walk for example (over 20 minute walk). Walking trips over 20 minutes are not conducive to walking. 1/4 mile is ideal since that is a 5 minute walk.

Where do you get the mile and a half? From the light rail drop at the MOA its more like 6 blocks.

[Beenhere4ever]

From MOA, buses depart for main centers of Bloomington and Edina, just to name a couple. And park and rides are built all around MOA. With more of those further south, suburban residents could cut their time and traffic by half or more. I just don't think most suburbanites are that informed about existing transit systems. That is something they should change. My sister lives in Minnetonka and takes buses to west suburban and south suburband destinations. She is a MN Zoo supporter, and I recently informed her she can get a bus from Minnetonka to MOA, and a second bus from MOA to Apple Valley. She's lived out there for at least 30 years, but it was news to her that transit could save her driving that trip.

[time2play]

I think the suburbs would become less nice as a result.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

From MOA, buses depart for main centers of Bloomington and Edina, just to name a couple. And park and rides are built all around MOA. With more of those further south, suburban residents could cut their time and traffic by half or more. I just don't think most suburbanites are that informed about existing transit systems. That is something they should change. My sister lives in Minnetonka and takes buses to west suburban and south suburband destinations. She is a MN Zoo supporter, and I recently informed her she can get a bus from Minnetonka to MOA, and a second bus from MOA to Apple Valley. She's lived out there for at least 30 years, but it was news to her that transit could save her driving that trip.

Our son looked into take the bus to work from Rosemount to Eagan-you'd think it would be easy, no, it either routes to Minneapolis or the MOA then back to Eagan, for a minimum of 1 1/2 hours each way vs a 15 minute drive. They took the route from Apple Valley to Burnsville away, which was nice, but now if we want to use that it routes to either the MOA or Minneapolis for a minimum of an hour each way--vs a 15 minute drive. I think suburbanites are well aware of bus routes and how inefficient they are....your route from Minnetonka to the MN Zoo--miniumum 2 hours---for a 30 minute drive....even in the worst traffic that drive would be maybe an hour.....now ask again why people in the suburbs don't take the bus....

Checked a route from St. Paul to downtown Minneapolis, said it was 55 minutes by bus and 18 minutes to drive-google maps. Powderhorn Park to Downtown, Minneapolis--4 miles-32 minutes by bus, 8 minutes by car. Now, obviously there are parking issues in downtown Minneapolis but to waste that much of your day in the bus, 4 hours in some cases, just makes NO sense when you can drive that same route, in traffic, in a 1/4th of that time.