08-17-2007, 10:56 AM
5,342 posts, read
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Reputation: 4700
Quote:
Originally Posted by
citybythebay
LOL...another untrue statement.
BTW...what insurance company doesn't charge higher premiums no matter what you own...ie., house, boat, car or three
....???...too funny! LOL
Are you saying insurers don't want to know if you own a pit bull? While I am no agent, I think they do. I see no correlation to house, boat car?????
I am saying your homeonwer premium will be higher if you own a pit bull. It will be a surcharge like having a wood stove or fireplace as there is inherently more risk. While there will be no surcharge for owning a poodle, lab, golden, beagle...etc. unless there has been a claim. Just like there will be no surcharge if you don't have a fireplace or woodstove.
Any agents want to chime in?
08-17-2007, 11:05 AM
Location: Camano Island, WA
1,913 posts, read
8,909,425 times
Reputation: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TimtheGuy
Are you saying insurers don't want to know if you own a pit bull? While I am no agent, I think they do. I see no correlation to house, boat car?????
I am saying your homeonwer premium will be higher if you own a pit bull. It will be a surcharge like having a wood stove or fireplace as there is inherently more risk. While there will be no surcharge for owning a poodle, lab, golden, beagle...etc. unless there has been a claim. Just like there will be no surcharge if you don't have a fireplace or woodstove.
Any agents want to chime in?
LOL...I was making a funny about the insurance industry as a whole...ya know...how they like to either rip people off... no matter what you own....guess it flew over pretty quick!...no biggy...
I own an APBT and my insurance is no higher than the next person.
However, there are quite a few companies that take advantage of all the hype and join that alarmist club
...but I know which ones those are and I steer people away from them.
Matter of fact, my insurance agent has three APBT and two Neapolitan Mastiffs. I love my agent!!
08-17-2007, 12:17 PM
5,342 posts, read
14,144,755 times
Reputation: 4700
Quote:
Originally Posted by
citybythebay
LOL...I was making a funny about the insurance industry as a whole...ya know...how they like to either rip people off... no matter what you own....guess it flew over pretty quick!...no biggy...
I own an APBT and my insurance is no higher than the next person.
However, there are quite a few companies that take advantage of all the hype and join that alarmist club
...but I know which ones those are and I steer people away from them.
Matter of fact, my insurance agent has three APBT and two Neapolitan Mastiffs. I love my agent!!
Ya, it went right over my head.
08-17-2007, 08:19 PM
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read
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Reputation: 5309
While you pitbull activists continued your bickering a seven year old boy was killed by a pitbull in North Minneapolis. The dog bit him repeatedly in the neck, his dad tried to help him and he ended up being hospitalized for bites as well. Pit Bulls kill...it's a fact.
08-17-2007, 08:23 PM
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read
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Reputation: 5309
08-18-2007, 12:21 PM
1 posts, read
2,273 times
Reputation: 9
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Pit bulls, like all dogs are great companions. I can’t believe anyone would actually think its ok to ban certain dogs. I have been working with dogs now for the past few years and I can say from my experience that evil dogs don’t exist. Next time you see an “evil” dog I suggest taking a look at the owner. [/font]
08-18-2007, 12:43 PM
6 posts, read
16,299 times
Reputation: 12
Ok, so let's say we ban all the Pit Bulls...do you really think the people who want theses dogs for all the wrong reasons, who mistreat them, give them no training and no socialization are going to stop getting them?
Let's say we managed to wipe the breed from the face of the earth...do you think that these same people who want them for their tough image or protection aren't simply going to switch to another breed? Then that breed will become the "dangerous dog dejour"...as Rottweilers, Dobermans, and German Shepards have been in the past...
This isn't a problem that can be solved by banning a breed of dog...that gives people a false sense of security..."now that the pit bulls are gone my child is safe from dog bites"...tell that to the 12 year old girl who was mauled by 2 Cocker Spaniels in NE Mpls a couple months ago...or the man who was attacked in New Brighton 2 months ago by a Laborabor Retriever...tell that to Paula Ybarra who was viciously attacked by an American Bulldog...the woman in France who received the worlds first face transplant, her injuries were sustained from a Laborador Retriever...
Owner responsibility and zero tolerance for human aggression is the only answer...the fact that it takes 3 bites for a dog to be deemed dangerous is ridiculous...ZERO tolerance...one bite and you're out...mandatory licencing, owner education, and canine obedience....dog ownership should be a privledge, not a right...if you cannot responsibly care for, train, and manage a dog you shouldn't be allowed to own one...period.
I am the owner of both Rottweilers and Pit Bulls...none of my dogs have ever bitten anyone and they never will...why?
Because they've been trained, loved, and socialized.
Because I never allow my dogs to be around children unsupervised.
Because the education of my dogs, and the people they come in contact with is an ongoing thing.
Think of a car…in the wrong hands it’s capable of serious injury and death. So what do we do? We train drivers…you’re not allowed to drive unless you studied proper driving techniques, passed a test, and received a license. Then your driving is monitored for the rest of your life. If you handle that car in a irresponsible manner you get a ticket. If you continue to do so, you get fines and your license is taken away. If you’re found driving after that, you go to jail…
Thousands of people are injured or killed by cars every year, but you do hear anyone talking about banning them?
It’s like the saying goes… “If you outlaw pit bulls, only outlaws will have pit bulls”. The vast majority of the owners of the dogs that bite and hurt people aren’t following the laws to begin with…do you really think that banning a breed will change that?
Last edited by Rottie_Grrrl; 08-18-2007 at 12:47 PM ..
Reason: Strip auto-inserted HTML formatting
08-18-2007, 12:54 PM
118 posts, read
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Reputation: 86
You guys are talking right past each other. The issue is whether or not it is worth the risk to have mistreated, dangerous dogs in our cities. Yes, I venture to say that most pit bull owners are fine owners, maybe even excellent owners. These are probably the pit bull owners posting on this web site and you are likely in the majority.
Now for the rub: Not every pit bull owner is a good owner. Fair enough? In fact, many of these bad owners get pit bulls because these bad owners can train pit bulls to be incredibly dangerous. Is it worth the risk to allow bad owners access to deadly weapons? Many say "no" because these bad owners often lack the judgment and ability to safely contain their dogs, which in turn, endangers nearby neighbors and children. It's like any other animal--we don't allow tigers in our cities, not because they are inherently dangerous, but because bad owners would put all of us at risk.
That's the debate. People who disagree with you don't necessarily hate pit bulls; rather, they are concerned about the risk posed to society when pit bulls are in the hands of bad owners.
08-18-2007, 12:58 PM
118 posts, read
389,036 times
Reputation: 86
This is a matter of preventable risk, not risk in general. We have risks everywhere in society, but we tend to outlaw risks that are seen as preventable.
The lack of enforceability of laws does not mean that we shouldn't have them. Meth is illegal, as well it should be, but we still have meth epidemic. We shouldn't make meth legal just because we can't catch everyone. It's about 'making the honest man honest.' Your analogies do not fit.
Notice that these dogs bit, but did not kill the victims. I can train my terrier to be very mean, but she isn't going to kill anyone.
Last edited by AVguy; 08-18-2007 at 01:08 PM ..
Reason: Apparently I forgot how to type after my last post
08-18-2007, 01:15 PM
6 posts, read
16,299 times
Reputation: 12
The Pioneer Press just did a piece about previous fatal dogs attacks in Minnesota since 1960...not one of them was by a Pit Bull
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_6652261
Two of them were by Alaskan Malamutes...should we ban them too?
I'm all about preventing risk...but as I said, outlawing one breed of dog isn't going to cut the risk of dog bites...
The vast majority of pit bull owners are responsible pet owners...these dogs are involved in therapy work and law enforcement and score on the average higher by the American Temperament Testing Society than many of the so-called "safe, family breeds"...
You said "It's about 'making the honest man honest.'...it's the honest, responsible owners of these breeds that are going to suffer if BSL passed...it's the well behaved and loving family pets that will be turned in or seized because those responsible owners have had their pets registered with the city.
The irresponsible owners of badly trained and socialized dogs aren't going to be lining up to turn them in...those dogs will be chained to a post in the basement, where some unsuspecting child who is not being monitored by their parents are still going to have access to them...
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
Housing units in structures - 1, attached (%)
Housing units in structures - 2 (%)
Housing units in structures - 3 or 4 (%)
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Housing units in structures - 10 to 19 (%)
Housing units in structures - 20 to 49 (%)
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Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
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Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1969 or earlier (%)
Means of transportation to work - Drove car alone (%)
Means of transportation to work - Carpooled (%)
Means of transportation to work - Public transportation (%)
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Working at home (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
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People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
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People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)