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They were split states, and it seems both had legislators trying to impede a secession vote, but that last paragraph speaks beaucoups about each state's culture since. Whereas yall had the Drake Constitution, we are known as "the state that joined the Confederacy after the war". A lot of Unionists in Kentucky mistakenly thought their slave holdings would be in tact after the war due to the loyalty to the union, and were disenfranchised to say the least with the passing of 3 new amendments. Reconstruction hurt too, though obviously not as bad as in the deep south. Jim Crow took power here with Confederate lawmakers, and our state has bunches Confederate memorials, and only a handful of union ones(I've actually never seen one). In short after the war yall went Midwest, we went South.
That new map is interesting. Most of the maps always show a spike in the southern accent in south central Missouri but this map has that spike shifted eastwards more to cover Park Hills, Farmington area. most of the maps have that northern spike more to the west around Lebanon.
Now Park Hills, Farmington are firmly in transition zone and people I've talked to there do have a ozarkish and kinda sound southernish but not to the extent someone down in Branson or West Plains does. But I do hear twangs in that area that you certainly don't hear in Jefferson county which is the bordering county to the north.
If that map showed the line in starting around Federick Town and Cherokee Pass I'd say it's pretty accurate. Because things becoming pretty southern "all at once" in the Cherokee Pass area KSHE said once on here. Frederick Town is just plain white trash though.
But that latest map carves out the MS hills region in eastern MO though.
Its just ironic how modern St. Louis is so East Coastish, rustbelt, but just 100 miles away you're in the south, and about 50 miles south its the start of transition zone.
If you hear down I55 Dixie is less than two hours away and the weather varies greatly too once you hit Cape Girardeau. The winters are milder when you get into the Delta.
First of all, it is "Fredericktown" not "Frederick Town" Second of all, what the hell makes you think that they are just "plain white trash"? Nobody I know from Fredericktown is white trash. You need a hobby and you need to quit talking about stuff you have no idea about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckessee
They were split states, and it seems both had legislators trying to impede a secession vote, but that last paragraph speaks beaucoups about each state's culture since. Whereas yall had the Drake Constitution, we are known as "the state that joined the Confederacy after the war". A lot of Unionists in Kentucky mistakenly thought their slave holdings would be in tact after the war due to the loyalty to the union, and were disenfranchised to say the least with the passing of 3 new amendments. Reconstruction hurt too, though obviously not as bad as in the deep south. Jim Crow took power here with Confederate lawmakers, and our state has bunches Confederate memorials, and only a handful of union ones(I've actually never seen one). In short after the war yall went Midwest, we went South.
Interesting you bring up memorials. Cape has both a Union and Confederate memorial. Both are at the Common Pleas Courthouse now, but the Confederate memorial used to be on Morgan Oak St., which is where the old Mississippi River bridge crossed into Cape at.
The city of Cape isn't very southern, but a decent chunk of Cape County is. It is 100% Midwestern once you get about 15 miles or so north of Cape.
First of all, it is "Fredericktown" not "Frederick Town" Second of all, what the hell makes you think that they are just "plain white trash"? Nobody I know from Fredericktown is white trash. You need a hobby and you need to quit talking about stuff you have no idea about.
Interesting you bring up memorials. Cape has both a Union and Confederate memorial. Both are at the Common Pleas Courthouse now, but the Confederate memorial used to be on Morgan Oak St., which is where the old Mississippi River bridge crossed into Cape at.
The city of Cape isn't very southern, but a decent chunk of Cape County is. It is 100% Midwestern once you get about 15 miles or so north of Cape.
Cape Girardeau county is also a long county as well. Not shocking the northern half is Midwestern while the southern half is more Dixie.
People say cape is more southern than springfield but I disagree after being there for the first time in years last month. Springfield feels a tad more southern to me. Maybe because north of springfield is still very well within the transition zone which has southern characteristics, while Cape like you said 15 miles north of it is Midwestern. Springfield isn't close to any regions that are nearly 100 percent western. If you head 50 miles north of springfield you're still in the transition zone.
Also last month when I was there was right after college was out. If it was during the school year with school in session it might feel less southern since people from different regions would be in town.
THB didn't you say in Cape Girardeau if felt more southern when college was out than when it was in session as well?
If I was only given the choice to either lump Cape as a Midwest city or a southern city, I'd give it the southern nod. Same as Springfield. They're right on the dividing line.
Cape Girardeau county is also a long county as well. Not shocking the northern half is Midwestern while the southern half is more Dixie.
People say cape is more southern than springfield but I disagree after being there for the first time in years last month. Springfield feels a tad more southern to me. Maybe because north of springfield is still very well within the transition zone which has southern characteristics, while Cape like you said 15 miles north of it is Midwestern. Springfield isn't close to any regions that are nearly 100 percent western. If you head 50 miles north of springfield you're still in the transition zone.
Also last month when I was there was right after college was out. If it was during the school year with school in session it might feel less southern since people from different regions would be in town.
THB didn't you say in Cape Girardeau if felt more southern when college was out than when it was in session as well?
If I was only given the choice to either lump Cape as a Midwest city or a southern city, I'd give it the southern nod. Same as Springfield. They're right on the dividing line.
Having spent quite a bit of time down there recently, Sikeston seems southern while Cape is more a mix. 30 miles makes a difference.
Having spent quite a bit of time down there recently, Sikeston seems southern while Cape is more a mix. 30 miles makes a difference.
Totally agree. Sikeston is the south! But like THB said if you head north to Jackson where he's from it feels southern, and Cape a little less southern.
Cape is also a larger city as well. In general though it seems the larger the city the less southern influences and I'm talking the south in general. Like Atlanta in recent years many say it feels less southern than the outlying more rural areas that are really Dixie. Same with Raleigh, and Charlotte NC I see many say about that as well. Makes sense though in modern times with people moving around for employment more and with modern transportation that the bigger the city the more diverse the population.
Rural Bollinger, and Cape Girardeau county do have sizable areas I would consider Dixie though.
Totally agree. Sikeston is the south! But like THB said if you head north to Jackson where he's from it feels southern, and Cape a little less southern.
Cape is also a larger city as well. In general though it seems the larger the city the less southern influences and I'm talking the south in general. Like Atlanta in recent years many say it feels less southern than the outlying more rural areas that are really Dixie. Same with Raleigh, and Charlotte NC I see many say about that as well. Makes sense though in modern times with people moving around for employment more and with modern transportation that the bigger the city the more diverse the population.
Rural Bollinger, and Cape Girardeau county do have sizable areas I would consider Dixie though.
Except Cape is getting more southern as time goes on from what I can tell. I can't believe the number of Tennessee plates I see in Cape nowdays. To be fair though I have no idea if these people are moving here or if they are originally from here and visiting. Cape always drew IL and KY residents but really any part of Tennessee has a closer large town/small city than Cape so I would assume the majority of them aren't in town for a one day shopping trip. Most of the TN plates aren't from the Memphis area either. Lots of Arkansas plates in Cape too but I would say many of them are generally stopping for a break en route to St. Louis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR
Having spent quite a bit of time down there recently, Sikeston seems southern while Cape is more a mix. 30 miles makes a difference.
Except Cape is getting more southern as time goes on from what I can tell. I can't believe the number of Tennessee plates I see in Cape nowdays. To be fair though I have no idea if these people are moving here or if they are originally from here and visiting. Cape always drew IL and KY residents but really any part of Tennessee has a closer large town/small city than Cape so I would assume the majority of them aren't in town for a one day shopping trip. Most of the TN plates aren't from the Memphis area either. Lots of Arkansas plates in Cape too but I would say many of them are generally stopping for a break en route to St. Louis.
Yep.
Interesting. Oddly here in Stl I have noticed a few TN plates also. Just up the street somebody is just moving into their new house and on their truck they have TN plates on it.
But I don't see many AR plates in Stl though. I certainly see more TN plates than AR.
And that is odd it's getting more southern. You would think it would be the opposite as time goes on.
Since the first shot that started the "on land" Civil War was fired in Carthage, and since it bitterly divided families .. . there is a cemetery for the fallen soldeirs from both the South and the North sides of the war. There is also a battlefield and a historic house that was the Headquarters for both the South and the North.
Since the first shot that started the "on land" Civil War was fired in Carthage, and since it bitterly divided families .. . there is a cemetery for the fallen soldeirs from both the South and the North sides of the war. There is also a battlefield and a historic house that was the Headquarters for both the South and the North.
I’ve been doing genealogy on my family for about 5 years. The side of my family that was here in Missouri during the Civil War was most certainly “bitterly divided.” I even had family members who packed their bags and moved to Arkansas and Tennessee so they could join the Confederacy. Others stayed in Missouri, but it appears that they were impressed against their will into the Union Army. (Join the Union Army or go to prison. That happened frequently in Missouri from 1860-1864.)
Most historians agree that about 75% of Missourians in 1860 were pro-Confederacy. After the Louisiana Purchase, the state was overwhelmingly settled by people from Virginia, the Carolinas, Kentucky, and Tennessee. When the Civil war broke out these people and their descendants were automatically sympathetic for the South and were rooting for it. It was the remaining pro-Union 25% who controlled the state government who kept Missouri out of the Confederacy.
Ironically, one of my distant third cousins in my family tree is Frank P Blair Jr. He was Missouri’s Congressman when the Civil War broke out and he was responsible for cutting the deal that kept Missouri in the Union. He was a bit of a hypocrite and had everything to lose from that deal. That side of the family owned slaves and Blair’s grandfather (Nathaniel Gist) even owned a plantation in Bourbon County, Kentucky, called Canewood. Blair resigned his seat in Congress and became a general in the Union Army. He had a role too in the infamous Camp Jackson Affair and the attempted seizure of the federal arsenal in St Louis in 1861.
Then if you want to talk about the Civil War dividing families… While Frank Blair was working to keep Missouri in the Union, his other distant cousin, William Henry Gist, was the governor of South Carolina who was working to take that state out of the Union. Hardly any historians even realize the relationship between Frank Blair and William Henry Gist (they were distant cousins). I only know this because one of great-grandmothers was a Gist and I’ve traced that tree.
Since the first shot that started the "on land" Civil War was fired in Carthage, and since it bitterly divided families .. . there is a cemetery for the fallen soldeirs from both the South and the North sides of the war. There is also a battlefield and a historic house that was the Headquarters for both the South and the North.
While the battle at Carthage, MO is given credit by historians as the first 'full scale' battle of the Civil War, there were numerous land engagements between forces predating this battle. Most where in Virginia - in what would become West Virginia - between a very effective George McLellan against a stumbling Robert E Lee. When these two met a year later on the Virginia peninsula, as commanders of their respective forces, the results would be much different.
The skirmish that sent the Missouri State Guard heading toward Carthage, that took place at Boonville where 10 men were killed, would probably get credit for the first time two organized enemy forces faced one another in battle - west of the Mississippi River.
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