Why all these new guns laws and no economy cares? (Washington: houses, unemployed)

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

I get it. Change is scary. And massive change always starts with a period of confusion. But if the ACA is to have its intended effect, there can be no exceptions that allow bad policies to continue to exist. What Feinstein, Clinton, and Landrieu have to say is rather unimportant to me. Our policies need to be more Ontario, less Mississippi. Period.

Change is only scary when it is ill-conceived, sold on lies and doesn't work. With respect to the ACA, you have all three.

[STLviaMSP]

You have your uninformed opinion, and I have actually priced out policy comparisons on four of the exchanges, because I'm the kind of person that likes to see for myself, rather than let the pundits, think tanks, and so forth influence my opinions. Until you can change what I have seen with my own eyes, you have no case at all. None. Zilch. Nada. Why don't you use some of the cost estimation tools on the exchanges for yourself? Or are you too afraid it will challenge your ideology? Because until you can prove to me that you have examined the pricing firsthand, nothing you have said will make a dent in my opinion, which I reiterate, is based on primary source information available on the exchanges themselves.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

You have your uninformed opinion, and I have actually priced out policy comparisons on four of the exchanges, because I'm the kind of person that likes to see for myself, rather than let the pundits, think tanks, and so forth influence my opinions. Until you can change what I have seen with my own eyes, you have no case at all. None. Zilch. Nada. Why don't you use some of the cost estimation tools on the exchanges for yourself? Or are you too afraid it will challenge your ideology? Because until you can prove to me that you have examined the pricing firsthand, nothing you have said will make a dent in my opinion, which I reiterate, is based on primary source information available on the exchanges themselves.

You should offer your services to the White House to help sell this great healthcare reform, because this is looking like a huge failure to most people right now:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...cancellations/

100,000 enrollees, five million cancellations. Ouch.

[STLviaMSP]

^ I could give two ****s what the level of enrollment is six weeks in. It has no bearing on the long term success of the ACA. I understand you anti-gummit types like the talking point it provides, but in the big picture it isn't very relevant.

Why don't you use some of the cost estimation tools on the exchanges for yourself? Or are you too afraid it will challenge your ideology? Why are you so afraid of using them?

Minnesota (which I hesitate to bring up because it throws you into inexplicable fits of rage), which has done an excellent job creating its own exchange, has 10,000 enrollees in the first six weeks out of a population of 6 million. Extrapolate that to the total US population, and you have 600,000 - a shade over Federal estimates. Clearly something else is at play in the so called "failure" of the ACA.

The problem isn't the ACA. The problem is the massive campaign of hate that has been going on for years to derail the law.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

^ I could give two ****s what the level of enrollment is six weeks in. It has no bearing on the long term success of the ACA. I understand you anti-gummit types like the talking point it provides, but in the big picture it isn't very relevant.

Why don't you use some of the cost estimation tools on the exchanges for yourself? Or are you too afraid it will challenge your ideology? Why are you so afraid of using them?

Minnesota (which I hesitate to bring up because it throws you into inexplicable fits of rage), which has done an excellent job creating its own exchange, has 10,000 enrollees in the first six weeks out of a population of 6 million. Extrapolate that to the total US population, and you have 600,000 - a shade over Federal estimates. Clearly something else is at play in the so called "failure" of the ACA.

The problem isn't the ACA. The problem is the massive campaign of hate that has been going on for years to derail the law.

My ideology and your imaginary campaign of hate has nothing to do with the millions of policies already being cancelled and the thousands of people reporting that the ACA is forcing them into plans they can't afford. If you don't think that's happening right now you are the one blinded by ideology. You might want to follow the news a little more closely. Pelosi is claiming it needs to be fixed, Harry Reid has called for an emergency Obamcare meeting. This wouldn't be happening if everything was a rosy as you claim, so don't lecture me about ideology.

Oh, and I think Minnesota is great. If I were to leave Missouri, it would definitely be near the top of my list.

For now, I will step away from our little back and forth to see how things play out in the coming days and weeks.

[STLviaMSP]

Why don't you use some of the cost estimation tools on the exchanges for yourself? Or are you too afraid it will challenge your ideology? Why are you so afraid of using them?

Here is the Missouri cost estimator. Prices for St. Louis County.
Here is the Minnesota cost estimator. 55410 is a good zip code to use.
Here is the California cost estimator.
Here is the Kentucky cost estimator.
Here is the New York cost estimator.
Here is the Kaiser subsidy estimator.


Facts are a b****, aren't they? Hard to argue with prices from the exchanges themselves and subsidies. But you'd rather hear the media spin and the talking heads validate your confirmation bias.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

Why don't you use some of the cost estimation tools on the exchanges for yourself? Or are you too afraid it will challenge your ideology? Why are you so afraid of using them?

Here is the Missouri cost estimator. Prices for St. Louis County.
Here is the Minnesota cost estimator. 55410 is a good zip code to use.
Here is the California cost estimator.
Here is the Kentucky cost estimator.
Here is the New York cost estimator.
Here is the Kaiser subsidy estimator.


Facts are a b****, aren't they? Hard to argue with prices from the exchanges themselves and subsidies. But you'd rather hear the media spin and the talking heads validate your confirmation bias.

Speaking of facts, Obama, under massive pressure from his own party, is apparently about to announce a "fix" of a problem you won't acknowledge exists. Facts are a *****, aren't they?

Source: President Obama's fix will continue current plans - Jonathan Allen - POLITICO.com

And I would note those calculators you link just provide estimates. You have to actually sign up to get a final quote. And I've gone through that exercise before in Missouri. Not sure why you think those prices are so great - they are not. It's hard to figure out the benefit level, but the plans have fairly high deductibles and out of pocket maximums.

[STLviaMSP]

Why don't you use some of the cost estimation tools on the exchanges for yourself? Or are you too afraid it will challenge your ideology? Why are you so afraid of using them?

But, yeah, we'll just keep the status quo, because it was working SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well. What with the 10% + rate hikes every year. That's a viable model!

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

Why don't you use some of the cost estimation tools on the exchanges for yourself? Or are you too afraid it will challenge your ideology? Why are you so afraid of using them?

But, yeah, we'll just keep the status quo, because it was working SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well. What with the 10% + rate hikes every year. That's a viable model!

I have used them. The cost in Missouri is quite high.

Oh, and it's official. Obama caved to the pressure. He should have just listened to you.

[STLviaMSP]

Which cost is "quite high" and compared to what? Come on now, be specific! We like hard specifics.

Re your citing national Dems, I don't really care what they think. I am not Harry Reid. I am not Nancy Pelosi. I am not Barack Obama. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I don't. I vote Democratic out of pragmatism, as I find the Tea Party-infested, southern leaning, moderate-purging GOP to be an absolutely repellent alternative, and since we lack a serious social democratic party, the Democrats are the next best thing on the national stage.