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Once upon a time the Hulk was called the savage Hulk.
The thing I really appreciated about Ultimate Spider-Man was the writer's guiding opinion: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Ultimate Spidey was a modernization and a VERY cinematic retelling of the most iconic superhero in Marvel Comics.
With Ultimate Hulk, the opinion seemed to be: This ain't broke, so let's break it. The core of the Hulk as a character is that he is a misunderstood monster. He is uncontrollable rage and pain, and he just wants to be left alone. Sure he has super strength, but he has the emotional maturity of an abused little child. Ultimate Hulk seemed to have the emotional maturity of a super-strong horny teenager. He didn't want to be left alone. He wanted his own way, no matter who he hurt. It totally broke the character for me.
I liked parts of The Ultimates quite a lot --- Captain America, Nick Fury, Thor, even the Henry Pym and Wasp moments. Very well done. But so much of it --- especially the action and overall conflict --- seemed to be Marvel trying to do a version of The Authority. And I just never cared for The Authority. Not my cup of tea.
With Ultimate Hulk, the opinion seemed to be: This ain't broke, so let's break it.
The Ultimate Hulk is a return to the uncomplicated grey Hulk which is a break from Peter David's Hulk where Bruce Banner suffers from a Multiple Personality Disorder.
Peter David's Hulk is the best written Hulk ever, but he is no monster and the Ultimates needed a worthy foe. The Ultimate Hulk was perfectly created to fill this niche.
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Ultimate Hulk seemed to have the emotional maturity of a super-strong horny teenager. He didn't want to be left alone. He wanted his own way, no matter who he hurt.
Which is the perfect description of a savage monster (read: serial rapist/serial murderer).
The Ultimate Hulk is the Captain America-experiment horribly gone wrong.
Instead of a super soldier Banner created a super Mr Hyde.
Which is the perfect description of a savage monster (read: serial rapist/serial murderer).
The Ultimate Hulk is the Captain America-experiment horribly gone wrong.
Instead of a super soldier Banner created a super Mr Hyde.
EXACTLY. Which is exactly why I HATED it. The Hulk is supposed to be a tragic hero. There is nothing heroic about a serial murderer/rapist/Mr. Hyde. That's not even a decent anti-hero. That's a villain.
I wouldn't mind the Hulk fighting the Ultimates a la King Kong --- the misunderstood monster. That's a great story, because you can sympathize with both sides. There is no way to sympathize with Ultimate Hulk.
I had wished they'd made the Hulk more tortured as he really is CURSED. Imagine waking up after Hulking out and finding you'd killed 40 people by throwing things like tanks through apartment buildings.
One graphic novel I own shows Banner trying to commit suicide. Gun in mouth...bang...next frame shows Hulk spitting out the bullet. "Stupid Banner", he says.
Banner should live in literal TERROR of turning into the Hulk and basically killing tons of people.
I wouldn't mind the Hulk fighting the Ultimates a la King Kong --- the misunderstood monster. That's a great story, because you can sympathize with both sides. There is no way to sympathize with Ultimate Hulk.
I don't find the Ultimate universe appropriate for children, so I don't mind if the Ultimate Hulk is an utter bastard.
The kinda bastard that is only allowed in adult comics. I mean, you gotta admit that even the Ultimate Cap. America can be a bastard, but I agree that he is a likeable -1945 kinda- bastard.
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Nope. Bruce Jones was the best Hulk writer ever.
I wouldn't know, I quit reading the Hulk after Pad left the series and only picked it up again because of the Planet Hulk saga.
And now I’m a big fan of the Incredible Herc.
Originally Posted by Mathguy
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Banner should live in literal TERROR of turning into the Hulk and basically killing tons of people.
I agree. In the Marvel Universe the Hulk's savage tantrums never killed an innocent life, which ironically is 'unrealistic'.
Originally Posted by Mark S.I don't find the Ultimate universe appropriate for children, so I don't mind if the Ultimate Hulk is an utter bastard.
Having a sympathetic hero isn't "just for kids."
Given that the Hulk is probably Marvel's second-most iconic character (right behind Spidey), turning him into a pathetic, hateful villain was a colossally bad idea.
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Originally Posted by Tricky D
I mean, you gotta admit that even the Ultimate Cap. America can be a bastard, but I agree that he is a likeable -1945 kinda- bastard.
Right on. Kinda like George C. Scott in Patton or Louis Gossett, Jr.'s character in An Officer and a Gentleman. Total bastards, but you can't help but like the guys.
And really, the same was true of the Iron Man film. Tony Stark in the beginning of the movie is a completely despicable human being, but he's so charming and funny that you can't but like him.
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Originally Posted by Tricky D
I wouldn't know
Bruce Jones's take on the Hulk is the best ever. The pitch-perfect example of less is more and trusting the reader to have a brain.
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Originally Posted by Tricky D
In the Marvel Universe the Hulk's savage tantrums never killed an innocent life, which ironically is 'unrealistic'.
True. And I wouldn't mind accidental deaths. A two-year-old throwing a tantrum and accidentally killing someone is tragic, because he doesn't know any better. A 16-year old doing it because he can't have his own way, that's just sick. It's behavior for a villain, not a hero.
Actually, that was one of the weak spots of the recent Hulk film. Hulk definitely killed in that movie. At the very least he killed that helicopter pilot, and probably a few more soldiers besides. And Banner never once expressed any remorse about it. I'm really hoping that someday we'll see an "extended version" of this film on DVD, where a lot those holes were filled in.
My point is that the Hulk in the Marvel universe still is acceptable for children (this is why nobody ever died), while the Ultimate universe (with the exception of Ultimate Spiderman) is more for adults and even has adult (read: complex political) themes.
Originally Posted by Mark S. My point is that the Hulk in the Marvel universe still is acceptable for children (this is why nobody ever died), while the Ultimate universe (with the exception of Ultimate Spiderman) is more for adults and even has adult (read: complex political) themes.
I disagree. The content of the Ultimates is certainly more adult, but the quality of the writing is much more ... well, I almost wrote "juvenile," but really it's "adolescent." All about witty quips and posing and pow with little to no character development. Plot moves the characters, rather than the choices of the characters moving the plot. The content is mature, but it has all the sophistication and complexity of an MTV video.
Ultimate Spidey, on the other hand, has some of the best writing and characterization ever seen in a super-hero comic, and its political message is far more subversive and complex than anything in the Ultimates. Ultimates wears its politics like a chip on the shoulder with a neon blinker. Ultimate Spidey aims for the heart.
And we have REALLY strayed off the original topic.
The content of the Ultimates is certainly more adult, but the quality of the writing is much more ... well, I almost wrote "juvenile," but really it's "adolescent."
Well, I guess it depends on the writers and which tools they were given. I doubt Mark Millar would've gained Marvel's trust to do Civil War if the Ultimates series wasn't so huge a success.
And Brian Michael Bendis only got Ultimate Spiderman because he had such a huge success with telling stories about the human side of Daredevil.
The Daredevil series was more about how superheroing influenced Matt Murdock instead of his adventures as his alter ego Daredevil. Which practically is no different as Ultimate Spidey.
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And we have REALLY strayed off the original topic.
The superhero movies are based on the comics so it is hard to call this off-topic.
But I'll stop posting about it if you find it a boring subject.
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The Ultimate Hulk was perfectly created to fill this niche.
Which is the perfect description of a savage monster (read: serial rapist/serial murderer).
I mean, you gotta admit that even the Ultimate Cap. America can be a bastard, but I agree that he is a likeable -1945 kinda- bastard.
My point is that the Hulk in the Marvel universe still is acceptable for children (this is why nobody ever died), while the Ultimate universe (with the exception of Ultimate Spiderman) is more for adults and even has adult (read: complex political) themes.
