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Since Amtrak's decision weighs heavily, then there is no need for a Woodcrest station NJ Transit stop, or even the AC Line still needing to go to 30th street station. If someone in Washington DC is looking to get to Atlantic City via train or vice versa, the passenger wouldn't need to route via 30th Street, and could change trains at Market East.
Amtrak's plans for Market East involve high speed rail. All of their regional trains will still be using 30th St.
. . . but Amtrak to Market East doesn't really have any impact on the ACRL one way or the other. At present it's an excursion train that caters to a small number of commuters because it has an abysmal schedule. My suggestion is to increase the frequency on the part of the line in urban/suburban Philly/South Jersey and add a few stations/more connections to make it more effective as a transit service/connect it to more of the job/destination centers in the region.
As I mentioned - none of these trains would even go to AC. The system is about commuters, people going shopping or for a night out, not about intercity travel.
All of lines in that light red color that run along state or US highway routes are basically express buses . . . except now when NJT runs them they use intercity coaches with on-board fare collection, only a handful of park-n-rides and few bus stops are dignified with so much as a plexiglass shelter.
My suggestion is to use higher capacity, low floor, articulated buses, have proper stops, at least half of the stops should have parking, fares should be collected at the stop (just like on the Riverline), etc. It wouldn't exactly be BRT but it would be faster than the current setup and a lot faster than the regular transit buses.
Riverline
West Trenton Transit Center Lower Ferry Road
Parkside Ave
Prospect Street
Calhoun & Bernard Street
Calhoun & Passaic Street
State House
State and Warren Street
State and Canal Street
Trenton Transit Center
Hamilton Ave
Cass Street
Bordentown
Roebling
Florence
Burlington Towne Centre
Burlington South
Beverly-Edgewater Park
Delanco
Riverside
Cinnaminson
Riverton
Palmyra
Pennsauken-Route 73 Pennsauken Transit Center
36th Street Copper Hospital
Atlantic Ave
Gloucester City
Crown Point Road
Red bank Ave
Woodbury JCT
Paulsboro
Gibbstown
Bridgeport
Penns Grove
Carney's Point
Pennsville
South Jerseyian LRT
West Trenton Transit Center Lower Ferry Road
Parkside Ave
Prospect Street
Calhoun & Bernard Street
Calhoun & Passaic Street
State House
State and Warren Street
State and Canal Street
Trenton Transit Center
Hamilton Ave
Cass Street
Bordentown
Roebling
Florence
Burlington Towne Centre
Burlington South
Beverly-Edgewater Park
Delanco
Riverside
Cinnaminson
Riverton
Palmyra
Pennsauken-Route 73 Pennsauken Transit Center
36th Street
Walter Rand Transportation ctr Cooper Hospital
Atlantic Ave
Gloucester City
Crown Point Road
Red Bank Ave
Cooper Street
Woodbury Heights
Wenonah
Mantra Boulevard
Sewell
Pitman
Rowan University
Glassboro
Clayton
Newfield
Oak Road
Landis Ave
Walnut Road
Route 55 Park / Ride
Broad Street
Main Street - Millville
Hammonton LRT
West Trenton Transit Center Lower Ferry Road
Parkside Ave
Prospect Street
Calhoun & Bernard Street
Calhoun & Passaic Street
State House
State and Warren Street
State and Canal Street
Trenton Transit Center
Hamilton Ave
Cass Street
Bordentown
Roebling
Florence
Burlington Towne Centre
Burlington South
Beverly-Edgewater Park
Delanco
Riverside
Cinnaminson
Riverton
Palmyra
Pennsauken-Route 73 Pennsauken Transit Center
36th Street
Walter Rand Transportation ctr
Cooper St-Rutgers Univ.
Aquarium
Entertainment Center Waterfront South
West Collingswood
Audubon
Barrington
Magolia
Stratford
Clementon
Pine Hill
Cedar Brook
Winslow JCT
Hammonton
Regional Rail
Bridgeton Commuter Rail
Philadelphia-30th Street Station North Philadelphia
Pennsauken Transit Center
Cherry Hill
Lindenwood
Atco Winslow JCT
Folsom
Buena
Vineland
Route 55 Park & Ride
Bridgeton
Atlantic City line
Philadelphia-30th Street Station North Philadelphia
Pennsauken Transit Center
Cherry Hill
Lindenwood
Atco Winslow JCT
Hammonton
Egg Harbor City
Absecon
Atlantic City
Cape May Branch
Philadelphia-30th Street Station North Philadelphia
Pennsauken Transit Center
Cherry Hill
Lindenwood
Atco Winslow JCT
Woodbine
Cape May Courthouse
Rio Grande
North Cape May
Cape May
Mount Holly Branch
Philadelphia-30th Street Station Pennsauken Transit Center
Maple Shade
Moorestown
Hainesport
Mount Holly
How about an NJT commuter train that links PATH and PATCO? To my knowledge, if you want to take the train from North Jersey to South Jersey, you have to take PATH to Penn Station, take the AMTRAK to 30th Street, the MFL to 8th street the walk to the PATCO.
To be fair, I've never actually made the trip, so maybe I'm making it more complicated than it needs to be, but maybe if PATCO and PATH were connected, I would have taken the train to North Jersey.
How about an NJT commuter train that links PATH and PATCO? To my knowledge, if you want to take the train from North Jersey to South Jersey, you have to take PATH to Penn Station, take the AMTRAK to 30th Street, the MFL to 8th street the walk to the PATCO.
To be fair, I've never actually made the trip, so maybe I'm making it more complicated than it needs to be, but maybe if PATCO and PATH were connected, I would have taken the train to North Jersey.
Why would you need to link the PATH and PATCO there Urban systems that service Urban Jersey not Suburban systems...
Current , Under Construction , Proposed , Planned Stations
Regional Rail
Raritan Valley Line Phillipsburg
Bloomsbury
Ludlow
Hampton
Glen Gardner
High Bridge
Annandale
Lebanon
White House
North Branch
Raritan
Somerville
Bridgewater
Bound Brook
Dunellen
Plainfield
Netherwood
Fanwood
Westfield
Garwood
Cranford
Roselle Park
Union Hillside
Meeker Ave
Newark Penn station
Hoboken (Peak Hours only)
Lambertville Branch - Seasonal Lambertville
Ringoes
Flemington
Three Bridges
Manville
Bridgewater
Bound Brook
Dunellen
Plainfield
Netherwood
Fanwood
Westfield
Garwood
Cranford
Roselle Park
Union
Newark Penn station
Hoboken (Peak Hours only)
West Trenton line
West Trenton Transit Center I-95 Park / Ride
Pennington
Hopewell
Belle Mead
Hillsborough
Bridgewater
Bound Brook
Dunellen
Plainfield
Netherwood
Fanwood
Westfield
Garwood
Cranford
Roselle Park
Union Hillside
Meeker Ave
Newark Penn station
Hoboken
MOM Network
Red Bank - Fork River line Forked River
Tom's River
Silver Ridge
Lakehurst
Jackson
Lakewood
Howell - Glen Road
Howell - Route 33
Eatontown
Red Bank
Middletown
Hazlet
Aberdeen-Matawan
Laurence Harbor
South Amboy
Perth Amboy
Woodbridge
Avenel
Rahway
Linden
Broad St. Elizabeth
North Elizabeth
Newark Airport
Newark Penn
Hoboken
Jamesburg Branch Manchester / Lakehurst
Jackson
Lakewood
Howell - Glen Road
Freehold
Freehold Boro - Throckmorton Street
Manalapan
Jamesburg
South Brunswick
Jersey Ave (Southbound only)
New Brunswick
Edison
Metchun
Metropark
Rahway
Linden
Midtown Elizabeth
North Elizabeth
Newark Airport
Newark Penn station
Secaucus JCT
New York Penn
South Amboy Branch Bordentown
Yardville
I-195 Park & Ride
Robbinsville
East Windsor
Rossmoor
Jamesburg
Helmetta
Spotswood
Route 18 Park & Ride
Madison Park South Amboy West
Perth Amboy
Woodbridge
Avenel
Rahway
Linden
Broad St. Elizabeth
North Elizabeth
Newark Airport
Newark Penn
Hoboken
Highland Branch Atlantic Highlands
Port Monmouth
Keansburg
Keyport
Aberdeen
Laurence Harbor
South Amboy
Perth Amboy
Woodbridge
Avenal
Rahway
Linden
Elizabeth
North Elizabeth
Newark Airport
Newark Penn Station
Secaucus JCT
New York Penn Station
Cape May line via Inland Connector
New York Penn Station
Secaucus JCT
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty Airport
Elizabeth
Linden
Rahway
Woodbridge
Perth Amboy
South Amboy
Matawan
Red Bank Eatontown
Howell - Route 33
Howell - Route 195
Lakewood
Lakehurst
Crestwood Village
Chatsworth (Limited)
Winslow JCT
Woodbine
Cape May Courthouse
Rio Grande
North Cape May
Cape May
Light Rail
New Brunswick Light Rail
Bound Brook Train Station Canal Road - South Bound Brook
Edgewood Terrace - South Bound Brook
Worlds Fair Dr - Franklin
JFK Boulevard - Franklin Enters tunnel
Franklin Boulevard (underground) - Franklin
Hamilton Street (Underground) - New Brunswick
New Brunswick Station (Underground) - New Brunswick
Livingston Ave (Underground) - New Brunswick
Commercial & George (Underground) - New Brunswick
Feaster Park (Underground) - New Brunswick
Howard Street (Underground) - New Brunswick Emerges from Tunnel
US 1 Park & Ride - North Brunswick
Washington Ave - Milltown
Rydners Lane - Milltown
Main Street - East Brunswick
Willet Ave - South River
Whitehead Ave - South River
Jernee Mill Road - Sayreville
South Minnisink Ave - Sayreville
Washington Road - Sayreville
Sayreville North
Stevens Ave North - South Amboy
Main Street Amboy
South Amboy Train Station
Princeton Streetcar
Princeton JCT Wallingford Drive
D&R Canal Trail
Faculty Road
University South
Chambers Street
Whilterspoon Street
Washington road
University North
Harrison Street
Amtrak's plans for Market East involve high speed rail. All of their regional trains will still be using 30th St.
. . . but Amtrak to Market East doesn't really have any impact on the ACRL one way or the other. At present it's an excursion train that caters to a small number of commuters because it has an abysmal schedule. My suggestion is to increase the frequency on the part of the line in urban/suburban Philly/South Jersey and add a few stations/more connections to make it more effective as a transit service/connect it to more of the job/destination centers in the region.
As I mentioned - none of these trains would even go to AC. The system is about commuters, people going shopping or for a night out, not about intercity travel.
I'm not sure I'm understanding. Within Philly, more ppl live within walking distance of Market East than by 30th Street station, and more employment is in Center City (which includes Market East) than by West Philly/30th Street station.
So, AC would benefit more if it had direct access to Center City/Market East than 30th Street, for the Atlantic County commuters into Philly, and for capturing Philly residents looking to gamble/spend money in AC.
Additionally it wouldn't lose longer access in that DC would be linked directly to Market East via Amtrak, where one could just change trains there at Market East than by 30th Street Station, in order to reach AC.
So, there would be less need for NJ Transit to be running a duplicative service from Camden County to 30th Street Station, when the existing PATCO line does it to Philly, is more direct and higher frequency, and overall does it better.
How about an NJT commuter train that links PATH and PATCO? To my knowledge, if you want to take the train from North Jersey to South Jersey, you have to take PATH to Penn Station, take the AMTRAK to 30th Street, the MFL to 8th street the walk to the PATCO.
To be fair, I've never actually made the trip, so maybe I'm making it more complicated than it needs to be, but maybe if PATCO and PATH were connected, I would have taken the train to North Jersey.
Actually one doesn't need to trek into PA for this anymore with the RiverLine. It'd be PATH-Penn Station-NEC Corridor to Trenton-RiverLine to Camden-PATCO to Lindenwold-change to AC Line to Atlantic City.
It's a lot easier taking a bus however, or driving part of the way.
I'm not sure I'm understanding. Within Philly, more ppl live within walking distance of Market East than by 30th Street station, and more employment is in Center City (which includes Market East) than by West Philly/30th Street station.
So, AC would benefit more if it had direct access to Center City/Market East than 30th Street, for the Atlantic County commuters into Philly, and for capturing Philly residents looking to gamble/spend money in AC.
Additionally it wouldn't lose longer access in that DC would be linked directly to Market East via Amtrak, where one could just change trains there at Market East than by 30th Street Station, in order to reach AC.
Your premise doesn't hold so your conclusion can't follow. The center of employment in Center City is well west of City Hall. Penn is the largest employer in the city.
There aren't enough people commuting from Atlantic County to Center City to make a commuter service remotely viable. Average speeds on heavy rail lines like PATCO are typically lower than on commuter rail because they make more frequent stops and typically travel at slower speeds . . . not to mention that the multiple stations, signaling and ATC systems, double-tracking, third rail, electric sub-stations, etc, etc. would be exorbitantly expensive and once you get past Lindenwold or maybe Berlin the population density just doesn't exist to produce ridership and since development is restricted in most of the area it's not like the density will magically materialize.
Quote:
So, there would be less need for NJ Transit to be running a duplicative service from Camden County to 30th Street Station, when the existing PATCO line does it to Philly, is more direct and higher frequency, and overall does it better.
The service isn't duplicative. It isn't duplicative now and even if PATCO got to 30th St. it still wouldn't be. First, one is a heavy rail/subway service with a high level of service that mainly serves the boroughs of central Camden Co and Center City. If the ACRL became a commuter line it would have service on the hour or half hour, it would have a decidedly more suburban orientation in South Jersey and would connect with most of the high capacity transit lines in the region while still serving the more easterly parts of Camden Co. It would also serve North Philly while continuing to serve University City.
There aren't enough people commuting from Atlantic County to Center City to make a commuter service remotely viable. Average speeds on heavy rail lines like PATCO are typically lower than on commuter rail because they make more frequent stops and typically travel at slower speeds . . . not to mention that the multiple stations, signaling and ATC systems, double-tracking, third rail, electric sub-stations, etc, etc. would be exorbitantly expensive and once you get past Lindenwold or maybe Berlin the population density just doesn't exist to produce ridership and since development is restricted in most of the area it's not like the density will magically materialize.
So basically what your saying is that the Atlantic City Line terminating in Center City would be worst than it's current terminal destination in West Philadelphia?
I don't know the exact percentage of people who catch the ACL and then transfer to Center City after they arrive at 30th Street Station but I'm willing to bet that more people from Atlantic County commute to Center City for work than University City.
Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 12-25-2012 at 09:51 PM..
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