Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, disregarding murder which is always going to be higher anywhere in America, let's have a look, with the acceptance that such comparisons are very difficult.
According to Upmystreet, http://www.upmystreet.com/local/crime-in-liverpool.html (broken link) there are 2,070 cases of violence against the person.
Camden is worse for burglary with 1602.7 per 100,000 compared to manchester with 1,560. http://www.upmystreet.com/local/crime-in-manchester.html (broken link)
Camden is a small city with less than 80,000 people compared to 458,000 in Manchester and 435,000 in Liverpool. Leave out the leafy suburbs in those cities and concentrate on the areas I highlighted, and I'm willing to bet that in many areas non-murder crime is every bit as bad, if not worse.
The big difference is a welfare state. When people abandon an area here (Liverpool's population has fallen dramatically), the government steps in and buys houses, demolishes them, and builds new social housing, schools, and NHS health centres. Then they create lots of government jobs via schemes like Sure Start.
These are the subtle nuances and differences the OP is not going to pick up on by driving through Camden at high speed. Abandoned buildings can be found all over the world. Understanding failed communities takes a little more effort.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,693,648 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hengist
Well, disregarding murder which is always going to be higher anywhere in America, let's have a look, with the acceptance that such comparisons are very difficult.
According to Upmystreet, Liverpool Crime Statistics & Policing | Local Crime Rates & Stats | UpMyStreet (http://www.upmystreet.com/local/crime-in-liverpool.html - broken link) there are 2,070 cases of violence against the person.
Camden is worse for burglary with 1602.7 per 100,000 compared to manchester with 1,560. Manchester Crime Statistics & Policing | Local Crime Rates & Stats | UpMyStreet (http://www.upmystreet.com/local/crime-in-manchester.html - broken link)
Camden is a small city with less than 80,000 people compared to 458,000 in Manchester and 435,000 in Liverpool. Leave out the leafy suburbs in those cities and concentrate on the areas I highlighted, and I'm willing to bet that in many areas non-murder crime is every bit as bad, if not worse.
The big difference is a welfare state. When people abandon an area here (Liverpool's population has fallen dramatically), the government steps in and buys houses, demolishes them, and builds new social housing, schools, and NHS health centres. Then they create lots of government jobs via schemes like Sure Start.
These are the subtle nuances and differences the OP is not going to pick up on by driving through Camden at high speed. Abandoned buildings can be found all over the world. Understanding failed communities takes a little more effort.
Why are you concerned with this? I could see you stumbling on the thread & making a comment. Yet you keep coming back & trying to make a point. What the point is is unclear.
It's called a discussion. The OP has had their question answered, and a discussion ensued. It's what happens on message boards. Someone made a point, someone else disagreed with it and responded. A discussion followed. What the point of your intervention is, is unclear. Are you a moderator?
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,693,648 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hengist
It's called a discussion. The OP has had their question answered, and a discussion ensued. It's what happens on message boards. Someone made a point, someone else disagreed with it and responded. A discussion followed. What the point of your intervention is, is unclear. Are you a moderator?
Discussion? You keep trying to make a point that the rest of us are missing. Perhaps it's because you don't have 1st hand knowledge of Camden, which was what the OP was looking for.
I'm not intervening, but asking what your point is. You seem to be holding up cities in the UK & saying we have unpleasant places too. In most of Camden, unpleasant would be a huge improvement. I have seen areas of Camden that looked like pictures that have been published of European cities immediately after WWII. Some has been torn down, but I have no clue if it all has been or not.
I grew up in a very nice suburb adjoining Camden. I think you can see all the decay just fine by driving Rt. 70 over to the Ben Franklin Bridge.
Camden flourished as a small city during WW2 and post-war, with war industry (and the Philly Navy Yard and other heavy industry). I still remember driving over the Whitman Bridge (when it was built) and smelling Old Grandad Bourbon Factory and seeing the Campbell Soup factory.
Flash forward, the industry is gone. Camden becomes something like 90 percent single mothers, mostly Puerto Rican. A city of 50,000 with no movie theater, no supermarket, nothing. Burnt-out row houses.
Buses would shuttle Puerto Ricans to farm areas further east towards the shore for work. I worked at Mrs. Paul's Frozen Food factory one summer and it was mostly Puerto Ricans (most missing fingers from the food chopping machines). $2.25 an hour and the Frozen Food Workers Union.
With my own interest in regional and city planning, I don't know if Camden is much of an example of urbanization/decay/whatever. It's real clear what happens when industry and manufacturing go away, and would look the same in, say, Gary, Indiana, or Flint, Michigan. People come for the manufacturing jobs, and the jobs go away. Not too complex a situation.
My aunt worked at an all-night porno place in Camden on Rt. 70. Now there's a job.
Not to be picky, but thats rt 30(Admiral wilson blvd) over the bridge into camden. Rt 70 don't start until about 2 miles past the bridge where 38 and Marlton pike comes together..
Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover
I grew up in a very nice suburb adjoining Camden. I think you can see all the decay just fine by driving Rt. 70 over to the Ben Franklin Bridge.
Camden flourished as a small city during WW2 and post-war, with war industry (and the Philly Navy Yard and other heavy industry). I still remember driving over the Whitman Bridge (when it was built) and smelling Old Grandad Bourbon Factory and seeing the Campbell Soup factory.
Flash forward, the industry is gone. Camden becomes something like 90 percent single mothers, mostly Puerto Rican. A city of 50,000 with no movie theater, no supermarket, nothing. Burnt-out row houses.
Buses would shuttle Puerto Ricans to farm areas further east towards the shore for work. I worked at Mrs. Paul's Frozen Food factory one summer and it was mostly Puerto Ricans (most missing fingers from the food chopping machines). $2.25 an hour and the Frozen Food Workers Union.
With my own interest in regional and city planning, I don't know if Camden is much of an example of urbanization/decay/whatever. It's real clear what happens when industry and manufacturing go away, and would look the same in, say, Gary, Indiana, or Flint, Michigan. People come for the manufacturing jobs, and the jobs go away. Not too complex a situation.
My aunt worked at an all-night porno place in Camden on Rt. 70. Now there's a job.
The Amdiral Wilson Blvd. (Route 30) was well known for it's porn shops, hourly motels and hookers. However, all of that is gone now. Prior to the Republican National Convention in I think 2000 that was in Philadelphia, they basically bulldozed the entire area and turned it into a park.
May I suggest a bus ride using NJ Transit through Camden. Not only will you be able to take your pictures, you can discuss Camden with real Camden folk.
I was born and raised in Camden and left town in the late 60s. It's a crying shame what happened to that city but it still holds many fond memories for me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Camden NJ
