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the way to control the problem is to cut off the reasons for the problem. punish the people bringing them here, punish the people hiring them.
this is one way we could help fight the problem but its only one way and its not the most effective. so why is it the one you are the most in favor of without mentioning any others?
how about passing a law that bans anyone here illegally from ever obtaining legal status?
how about immediate deportation for anyone determined to be here illegally?
how about allowing officers to check legal status for anyone they interact with for any potential crime?
do you favor giving illegals drivers licenses?
why hasn't Obama attempted to force employers to hire citizens or pay large penalties?
do you think Obama is doing all he can to reduce illegal immigration?
Last edited by CaptainNJ; 07-27-2014 at 06:55 AM..
how can they get subsidized health insurance thanks to obama? Enlighten us, oh master conspiracy theorist.
hmmm so you didn't say anything about voting but you did about getting subsidized health insurance. I guess that means I have sufficiently demonstrated to you how they can vote. well, I know they can get emergency Medicaid and hospitals are forced to give them emergency care. in googling, I also see that some have been wrongly moved onto obamacare from Medicaid (Im guessing some states are allowing them on Medicaid somehow). so we know that taxpayers are providing them with healthcare. now, directly sign up for obamacare well it seems there isn't much checking going on:
"The probe by the Government Accountability Office has raised fresh concerns about the ability of the sprawling health care program to prevent or intercept costly fraud schemes. In the case of the GAO investigation, 11 out of 12 applications submitted using "fictitious identities" were accepted, resulting in subsidized health coverage."
so is it unreasonable to figure that if 11 of 12 fake identities signed up, that illegals can sign up? you just need to know how to game the system and that is why Obama pays people to help sign them up.
this is one way we could help fight the problem but its only one way and its not the most effective. so why is it the one you are the most in favor of without mentioning any others?
how about passing a law that bans anyone here illegally from ever obtaining legal status?
how about immediate deportation for anyone determined to be here illegally?
how about allowing officers to check legal status for anyone they interact with for any potential crime?
do you favor giving illegals drivers licenses? why hasn't Obama attempted to force employers to hire citizens or pay large penalties?
do you think Obama is doing all he can to reduce illegal immigration?
Because big business doesn't want that, and big business gets what it wants in this country, regardless of which party is in charge.
your suggestion isn't based in reality for a number of reasons. it must be nice to live in a fantasy world where the solution is what you suggest.
the way to control the problem is to cut off the reasons for the problem. punish the people bringing them here, punish the people hiring them.
you can say whatever you want about immigrants from Mexico and south of it. It only further reveals ignorance on the issue. latin americans are a lot of our illegal immigrants, but there's a lot more not from there than you think.
I agree. "Solutions" like erecting borders fences and whatnot are cosmetic and don't really solve the problem. The problem is a lack of enforcement of our laws. You can't physically control a US-Mexico border than is almost 2000 miles long. You can't control all our ports of entry and prevent people from illegally overstaying when they first enter legally. What should be done instead is to jail individuals and business leaders who hire illegal immigrants, and deport every single person who is found to be here illegally. No exceptions! The only problem is this is not what's being done. What should be done nationwide is what Arizona tried to do, but the federal government stopped. It is obvious the federal government does not want to enforce immigration laws.
hmmm so you didn't say anything about voting but you did about getting subsidized health insurance. I guess that means I have sufficiently demonstrated to you how they can vote. well, I know they can get emergency Medicaid and hospitals are forced to give them emergency care. in googling, I also see that some have been wrongly moved onto obamacare from Medicaid (Im guessing some states are allowing them on Medicaid somehow). so we know that taxpayers are providing them with healthcare. now, directly sign up for obamacare well it seems there isn't much checking going on:
"The probe by the Government Accountability Office has raised fresh concerns about the ability of the sprawling health care program to prevent or intercept costly fraud schemes. In the case of the GAO investigation, 11 out of 12 applications submitted using "fictitious identities" were accepted, resulting in subsidized health coverage."
so is it unreasonable to figure that if 11 of 12 fake identities signed up, that illegals can sign up? you just need to know how to game the system and that is why Obama pays people to help sign them up.
no, because the voting doesn't even deserve a response.
identity theft issue with healthcare exist, just like identity theft issues exist with everything. i already posted links to a story about a bust of an ID theft ring that was specifically for illegals from asia and elsewhere. but you're implying with your posts that somehow there's a way for illegals to legally get obamacare and other programs. no program is immune from fraud, whether those perpetuating the fraud are citizens or not isn't really a relevant detail IMO.
this is one way we could help fight the problem but its only one way and its not the most effective. so why is it the one you are the most in favor of without mentioning any others?
how about passing a law that bans anyone here illegally from ever obtaining legal status?
how about immediate deportation for anyone determined to be here illegally?
how about allowing officers to check legal status for anyone they interact with for any potential crime?
do you favor giving illegals drivers licenses?
why hasn't Obama attempted to force employers to hire citizens or pay large penalties?
do you think Obama is doing all he can to reduce illegal immigration?
what is "immediate deportation"? so, if a cop sees you, and just decides your illegal, he can put you on a plane out? or is he required to arrest you, detain you, and actually prove you're illegal? you know, our whole system of justice?
1. I know some states have permitted undocumented people to get a drivers license. i don't think NJ is one of them, so I haven't really cared too much about that 'issue'. i wouldn't support any measure in NJ to do that though.
2. because this is a democracatic republic, and he's not a dictator. Why hasn't congress done that?
3. No, he can do various measures via executive order, and then we can listen to people moan about how he's taking power into his own hands. But no, he's definitely not doing all HE can do reduce illegal immigration.
1. how am I supposed to verify legal status of my landscaper's employees? are you suggesting that I be racist and demand to see their work papers if I suspect them of being Mexican?
2. are you seriously suggesting that this is how the government intends to enforce immigration laws? if they want assistance, then why did the Obama admin sue Arizona? also, I seriously doubt that you would want the government to enforce all its laws this why, so why are choosing this as the preferred way for immigration enforcement? I know, because you know it cant work!
i make sure i get tax IDs for any landscaping service I've used. and if anyone is going to be on my property, i want to know their full names, and i'm well within my right of being able to check into who they are. you can ask questions without being racist. i have 3 kids, if people don't like that I want to know who they are before they can work on my property, then they don't need my money.
The reasons for the problem do not lie here. They lie in the countries these people are fleeing. Violence and poverty are the main reasons people come from south of our border. We would not have this influx of immigrants we do if every country they're coming from are as wealthy and fortunate as those of us in this country.
You've got the cause and effect wrong. People are hiring illegals BECAUSE they're coming, not the other way around. Captain's right about your method of placing blame.
We have spent a large sum of money destroying the powers of the drug cartels in Mexico and Columbia. And they moved to Honduras, Guatamala, and other parts of central america. We could legalize marijuana, and decriminalize various other drugs, and that would go a long way to reduce some of the violence in those countries. poverty, well, there are plenty of places in the world in poverty, and people are shelling out $5,000 to escape those places. So, not sure how much I buy poverty as a main reason.
people are hiring illegals because they want cheap labor. some get here, get the jobs, send money home, and then tell their relatives to come also.
i'm not placing blame. but the reality is, if they got here and made no money, what reasons would they have to stay?
We have spent a large sum of money destroying the powers of the drug cartels in Mexico and Columbia. And they moved to Honduras, Guatamala, and other parts of central america. We could legalize marijuana, and decriminalize various other drugs, and that would go a long way to reduce some of the violence in those countries. poverty, well, there are plenty of places in the world in poverty, and people are shelling out $5,000 to escape those places. So, not sure how much I buy poverty as a main reason.
people are hiring illegals because they want cheap labor. some get here, get the jobs, send money home, and then tell their relatives to come also.
i'm not placing blame. but the reality is, if they got here and made no money, what reasons would they have to stay?
I agree. But the problem still isn't here, it's where they're coming from. It's not the US's job to fix those other countries, though we attempt to anyway, in some ways.
As long as life in their home countries is sh*tty, they're going to want to leave. Where will they come? A prosperous country like the US, which has the idea of the "American Dream," something way overrated and often unattainable.
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The only problem is this is not what's being done. What should be done nationwide is what Arizona tried to do, but the federal government stopped. It is obvious the federal government does not want to enforce immigration laws. 
The reasons for the problem do not lie here. They lie in the countries these people are fleeing. Violence and poverty are the main reasons people come from south of our border. We would not have this influx of immigrants we do if every country they're coming from are as wealthy and fortunate as those of us in this country. 
