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I've been thinking about that recently, too. But I don't have anything to pass on except my IRA which he's already the sole beneficiary of, but I was just going to use NOLO.
I've got a mortgaged condo and a very small bank account. That's it.
There is a life insurance policy, but she won't need a will for that.
Someone said that even though I only have one heir, it will still be easier on her if I have a will.
Back to the OP, without a real will, the "10% kid" could probably challenge it.
As you know, my own mother died this year. I am one of seven children, one of whom died in 2006, leaving an adult daughter.
My mother's plan was to leave her estate, which mostly consists of her house, to her six living children and split a seventh share between her five grandchildren. The lawyer advised her that in order to keep it from being contested according to NJ law, she should leave my dead brother's share to his daughter and split the eighth share between the other four grands. The lawyer we recently retained to get us through probate while the courts are closed using the coronavirus workaround set up by the court said, "Good", when he reviewed the will, because if it had not been written that way, there was a chance my niece could have contested it (not that I think it would have occurred to her do so).
So if the mother in the OP's case wants to slap the estranged kid and make it stick, she should definitely have a lawyer to make sure it's done properly. There may be laws that supersede a do-it-yourself Interwebz will.
In another case, my BIL and his younger sister learned after their parents' deaths that the oldest sister had talked the parents into leaving her everything and cutting them out. The logic was that she had no children to take care of her in her old age, and the other two did. Both parents had some dementia and health problems and the oldest sister was managing their accounts for them. It was all very sleazy. They talked to a lawyer, but the will was what it was.
Karma stepped in, and before the estate was settled, oldest sister died of a massive stroke at 63, with no will, and her two siblings got everything.
My mother's plan was to leave her estate, which mostly consists of her house, to her six living children and split a seventh share between her five grandchildren. The lawyer advised her that in order to keep it from being contested according to NJ law, she should leave my dead brother's share to his daughter and split the eighth share between the other four grands. The lawyer we recently retained to get us through probate while the courts are closed using the coronavirus workaround set up by the court said, "Good", when he reviewed the will, because if it had not been written that way, there was a chance my niece could have contested it (not that I think it would have occurred to her do so).
So if the mother in the OP's case wants to slap the estranged kid and make it stick, she should definitely have a lawyer to make sure it's done properly. There may be laws that supersede a do-it-yourself Interwebz will.
how much money is in that estate to divide it up 8 ways. it seems super pointless to take 1/8 and give it to 5 grandkids, so 1/5 of 1/8. if people want to play with money they should do it when they are alive instead of screwing around with people after they die.
i guess i have some personal thoughts about this from my own situation which impact my opinions.
i was once fortunate to sit in on a meeting with my dad's financial advisors and an attorney which included an estate planning deal. i was f-ing furious with the plan. i did make it clear i wasnt happy but after i called the financial advisor and gave him a whole angry speech over it. not that i am entitled to anything and i am extremely fortunate to have everything i do have, so i dont complain about my situation most people would wish to have my situation. but it wasnt consistent with my dad's wishes and it screwed me and my brothers.
how much money is in that estate to divide it up 8 ways. it seems super pointless to take 1/8 and give it to 5 grandkids, so 1/5 of 1/8. if people want to play with money they should do it when they are alive instead of screwing around with people after they die.
i guess i have some personal thoughts about this from my own situation which impact my opinions.
WTF? It's a HOUSE. How do you divvy up a frikken house when you are alive and still living in it?
And, um, this is my mother you're talking about, not you. How was she "screwing around" with people? Maybe her point was simply to give a gift to her grandchildren after her death out of the only asset she owned.
Our family dynamics may be different. We actually loved our mother, and in fact, we never expected to inherit anything at all, because we always thought the house would pay for her nursing home/long-term care if that ever became necessary.
WTF? It's a HOUSE. How do you divvy up a frikken house when you are alive and still living in it?
And, um, this is my mother you're talking about, not you. How was she "screwing around" with people? Maybe her point was simply to give a gift to her grandchildren after her death out of the only asset she owned.
how much did 1/8 of the house come out to?
and i can see it that way also. its everyones right to do with their property as they please.
i suppose its not that complicated. sell the assets and then divide up according to the formula. id say im inappropriately applying certain thoughts to your situation as its not a similar situation.
Last edited by CaptainNJ; 08-13-2020 at 09:07 AM..
My mom in Hudson County wants to create a will. She said she might just do LegalZoom/etc so it’s not costly, but I’ve heard mixed reviews. Many from survivors who had to deal with a lot of financial and bureaucratic headaches settling their loved one’s estate if they had a LegalZoom/etc will rather than something done through a lawyer.
Mom is 65 and retired. Good health. Her house is paid off - she may consider downsizing to a condo or something eventually but at the moment has no plans. Her main reason for wanting a will is if she dies while still living in her home. Other than the house she really doesn’t have much to leave behind, so it’s not like there will be a lot of money to deal with.
She has three adult children, one of whom is estranged. Two of us will each get 45% of any assets after she dies, and the estranged one gets 10%. I don’t know whether the estranged sibling will cause any problems when the time comes but that’s another reason I want her to do this through a lawyer, so that we don’t have to deal with a possible fight.
She also amended her life insurance policy to make my (minor) daughter her beneficiary. I believe that she wants us three adult siblings to split the house, though. Not sure if involving my minor daughter her beneficiary would make a will more complicated in any way.
For this area of NJ, what might she expect to pay for a basic will? If I can afford to pay the fee for her as a gift then I’ll probably do so, to ensure she gets something of quality.
The more complex the bequests or family relationships the more likely there will be problems and the more that costs to address. I agree she should not rely on some template will she downloads off the web. Not because she can't, but because there are some wrinkles in the family situation that could set it up for being contested. Remember, surviving family will be emotional right when they need to be the most cooperative. All sorts of resentments and insults from the past are more likely to rear their heads. That just about guarantees that the only people who get much benefit from her estate are future attorneys, not family.
One thing that will help simplify it is to designate beneficiaries for as many of her assets as possible. Those assets do not require probating. Hard to protest those decisions after the fact. This bank account, that mutual fund, this or that insurance policy, etc. When you start spitting things out to different generations of family (particularly minors) it gets even more complicated.
Split ownership of a house? What a potential MESS for everyone involved! Real estate as a probate asset is handled differently in different states. In some states real estate must be probated or liquidated and the proceeds divided...you can't just leave it to one beneficiary directly. A lot simpler to direct that the property is to be sold and the cash proceeds split between the heirs. Why pin everyone to a house that might not even be in a location they want to live in? After it's owner dies the house doesn't just quietly sit there. It needs utilities and property taxes paid while the estate settlement drags on. The longer probate takes to finish, the more the property costs the estate. You can only hope you'll get that money back when it sells.
Then there's physical personal property. If she wants specific people to get specific items she should include those bequests in the will and label those objects. If she doesn't really have preferences, have the potential heirs make a list of items they would really like to have. This china bowl, that piece of furniture. If multiple people want the same object, let them do some horse trading and reach agreements before all the pressure of death or probate even begins. File those lists/agreements with the will.
Probate laws and requirements differ by state. Many states require some specific statements be included in a will. One way to reduce the cost of a professional will preparation is to read examples of wills acceptable by that state (often you can find state-specific examples on line that don't cost anything to download), use them to direct your thinking, but then get a professional's eye on it afterwards. Less time, less cost. Nothing wrong with writing up a draft that includes such boilerplate and THEN having a state-licensed attorney review it, search for potential pitfalls, and finalize it.
Last edited by Parnassia; 08-13-2020 at 10:03 AM..
and i can see it that way also. its everyones right to do with their property as they please.
Won't know that until we actually sell it. Don't know if you've noticed, but there's this thing called coronavirus that has caused all the courts to be closed, including the Bergen County Surrogate.
They came up with a workaround, and of course they are way backed up because Bergen County had a huge increase in deaths this spring--again, this is not a situation in which we can play the "it's all a hoax" game, because those people are actually really DEAD and their family members are trying to file their wills--but we had to retain an estate lawyer to get through to them, We just got the paperwork releasing my sister and I to be co-executrices YESTERDAY.
By the way, the lawyer's own father died of COVID-19 on March 30, two days after my mother died, and he was just getting his appointment to have his own father's will reviewed by the court the week after ours.
Won't sell the house until next year. Needs some work first. Probably go for between $500K/$600K depending on the market at the time.
Won't know that until we actually sell it. Don't know if you've noticed, but there's this thing called coronavirus that has caused all the courts to be closed, including the Bergen County Surrogate.
They came up with a workaround, and of course they are way backed up because Bergen County had a huge increase in deaths this spring--again, this is not a situation in which we can play the "it's all a hoax" game, because those people are actually really DEAD and their family members are trying to file their wills--but we had to retain an estate lawyer to get through to them, We just got the paperwork releasing my sister and I to be co-executrices YESTERDAY.
Won't sell the house until next year. Needs some work first. Probably go for between $500K/$600K.
gotcha, i withdraw my earlier comment as not being appropriate.
i was raised with different thoughts about this stuff but they dont really apply here. every now and then i will shoot a comment to someone who mentions divvying up things according to who they like more, who needs a house, etc. etc. in the finance section. i generally believe in an equal distribution among children. its not a time to start taking shots at people or play favorites via inheritance. but that is totally not applicable here.
The more complex the bequests or family relationships the more likely there will be problems and the more that costs to address. I agree she should not rely on some template will she downloads off the web. Not because she can't, but because there are some wrinkles in the family situation that could set it up for being contested. That just about guarantees that the only people who get much benefit are future attorneys, not family.
One thing that will help simplify it is to designate beneficiaries for as many of her assets as possible. Those assets do not require probating. Hard to protest those decisions after the fact. She could decide rather than split single assets into percentages, just to leave this or that intact asset to different people.
Split ownership of a house? What a potential MESS for everyone involved! Real estate as a probate asset is handled differently in different states. Why make it even more difficult than it has to be? Direct that the property is to be sold and the proceeds split between the heirs. They can use the proceeds to buy their own place, invest it in property they already have, or do something entirely different. Why pin everyone to a house that might not even be in a location they want to live in? The longer debate over the fate of the house continues during or after probate concludes, the more it's upkeep will cost everyone.
Probate laws and requirements differ by state. Often there is some specific language the state prefers in wills in order for them to be recognized and honored there. One way to reduce the cost of a professional will preparation is to read examples of wills acceptable by that state (often you can find state-specific examples on line for no cost), use them to do as much of the thought work as possible, but then get a professional's eye on it afterwards. Less time, less cost. Nothing wrong with writing up a draft that includes such boilerplate and THEN having a state-licensed attorney review it, search for potential pitfalls, and finalize it.
I regularly get a advertising package from a local financial/legal firm that offers a service for just that--reviewing your DIY will, advising as to changes and pitfalls, and finalizing. I'm sure they are everywhere in the state.
While there may be cases where you don't NEED a will, I think it's always prudent. In a perfect world where everyone is reasonable and loving it might not be necessary. I just hear of so many cases where things don't go that way and at least a will spells it out. Also even with no contesting, it will just be speedier. ( obviously covid changes everything but still.....).
We had a will and recently updated it.
gotcha, i withdraw my earlier comment as not being appropriate.
i was raised with different thoughts about this stuff but they dont really apply here. every now and then i will shoot a comment to someone who mentions divvying up things according to who they like more, who needs a house, etc. etc. in the finance section. i generally believe in an equal distribution among children. its not a time to start taking shots at people or play favorites via inheritance. but that is totally not applicable here.
Plus you know I might drive the 20 minutes up to Holmdel and kick your ass. Changes are I tower over you, and like my mother, I am an inherently strong woman of Dutch descent who doesn't take crap off of anybody.
She was 91 when she died, but she was still 5'9" (had shrunk a couple of inches) and 170 pounds with a back as straight as a wall.
You don't want her ghost coming around to you in the night, either.
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Won't know that until we actually sell it. Don't know if you've noticed, but there's this thing called coronavirus that has caused all the courts to be closed, including the Bergen County Surrogate.
I regularly get a advertising package from a local financial/legal firm that offers a service for just that--reviewing your DIY will, advising as to changes and pitfalls, and finalizing. I'm sure they are everywhere in the state.
