Halfway Houses and your town? (college, to live in, professionals)

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by ATLater

I told you where my facts were coming from.

and they are more contrived than factual

Originally Posted by ATLater

Oh yes lets all go Wikipedia because EVERYTHING on wikipedia is correct -

it is an independent source of data, unlike you I don't pull "facts" from the air

Originally Posted by ATLater

forget the county websites -

HUD is a federal program, while localities might process and service the claims HUD makes the rules that the counties follow, thanks for playing, and please come back when you have a grasp of the facts.

and please read the terms of service, you can attack my opinions but not me, until you learn how to play nice, don't bother to respond

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by natalayjones

So now I'm a loser because I don't believe you should discount people for making bad choices in their lives?

I do hold people responsible for their acts, and while people can be rehabed they have a lot to prove before I would begin to accept them.
you are more forgiving, good for you

[fastninja500]

Originally Posted by natalayjones

I like that you offered a solution, but I doubt the govt is asking permission for anything. I know that when they put a halfway house on my grandmother's block, they didn't ask them anything.

Not that it happens often but I do believe that when people band together and raise up a storm, government officials do back off their ill-conceived ideas. Bad media and all that.

I myself have successfully joined up and paid for efforts by my neighbors to fight off a couple of planned developments in a couple of towns that we lived in years ago.

The first was a planned warehouse close to our neighborhood in Central Jersey, that would have brought in 18 wheelers passing through our town.

The other was a planned expansion by a hotel, that would have affected the water table, creeks and rivers close to our town.

In both cases, we won and their plans were scrapped. We raised up a real stink about it and hired some excellent lawyers. Basically, threatened to make it very costly for the developers. They blinked and backed off. Even the politicians that were supporting the developers.

Originally Posted by natalayjones

Honestly, who would vote for that besides drug dealers? Unless the halfway house came with some tax breaks or monetary incentives, I doubt many people would even vote. I know we are all educated, informed, voters on this board but most people don't vote. The attitude is "the govt is going to do whatever they want so why waste my time voting"

Apathy. If you don't care about your neighborhood, chances are, nobody else will.

My 2-cents: voting does matter. A lot. Letter writing and phone calls to politicians also work. Plus hiring some good lawyers. Its definitely better than "the govt is going to do whatever they want so why waste my time voting" .

[mojow]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

you views are either naive or ill informed.

the facts are that most people are in halfway houses for reasons, like release from prison, drug rehab programs and the like, you might be a good hearted person but I really wouldn't want undesirables inserted where I live.
Sure life is tough and things happen and that is one reason that I've worked hard in order to be able to afford to live separate from the people in the lower strata of society, I don't need government to undermine what I've worked hard for

Originally Posted by apvbguy

I'm not saying that halfway houses are a bad thing, but not in my neighborhood

Originally Posted by apvbguy

First off where did I ever state that I was better than anyone else? Because I live in a well to do area? is that is just your inferiority complex kicking in?
because I don't live in the 'hood I don't have enough "cred" for you?

Originally Posted by apvbguy

no I just don't want to see losers who post crap like this moving in!
so what program are you in?

Originally Posted by apvbguy

maybe not all of them are lowlifes but most of them are, you can parade around the few rich boys who've been in your programs all you care to but that doesn't alter the fact that the majority of people, convicts who are in programs at half way houses for release from prisons are dirt bags.

Originally Posted by apvbguy

sounds very undesirable to me, I wouldn't want to live next to a family like that.

Lol. For your sake, there better not be a heaven. Cos God's not going to let someone like you live in the "rich" sections. Every one there is going to consider you an "undesirable".

Your snobbery is blazing the trail before you dude. Your lack of any grace whatsoever is revolting. You may have the money to live in "class" and you might consider your character to be one of grandeur, but what you boast in funds and grandeosity, you severely lack in goodwill and grace, to a stunning degree I might add.

Also you might hope there really IS no such thing as reincarnation. The powers that be may just send you back to walk in another mans shoes. You may just learn some grace yet.

(ps: I would hazzard a guess that most of the respect given you is of the purchased variety?)

[JERSEY MAN]

I would not one next to my house for the following reasons. As having 30 years in law enforcement I have worked by and at several halfway houses. The statistics for crime on the blocks where they are and were put rose dramatically. Many were (are) rearrested and sent back to prison.The criminal element descended on the buildings like flies on poop. The areas went downhill very, very fast. SUPERVISION terrible, thats why we were there all the time. I agree that people(most) deserve a reliable chance at rehabilitation, but from what I have seen I also would be in the opinion of NIMBY not in my back yard. Most of this mentality of NIMBY is from people that broke there butt all there life to buy a house and are afraid that there family will be in harms way and property values will decrease.

[mojow]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

I would not one next to my house for the following reasons. As having 30 years in law enforcement I have worked by and at several halfway houses. The statistics for crime on the blocks where they are and were put rose dramatically. Many were (are) rearrested and sent back to prison.The criminal element descended on the buildings like flies on poop. The areas went downhill very, very fast. SUPERVISION terrible, thats why we were there all the time. I agree that people(most) deserve a reliable chance at rehabilitation, but from what I have seen I also would be in the opinion of NIMBY not in my back yard. Most of this mentality of NIMBY is from people that broke there butt all there life to buy a house and are afraid that there family will be in harms way and property values will decrease.

See apvboy? Now that's a respectable way to input information. He gets points.

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by JERSEY MAN

I would not one next to my house for the following reasons. As having 30 years in law enforcement I have worked by and at several halfway houses. The statistics for crime on the blocks where they are and were put rose dramatically. Many were (are) rearrested and sent back to prison.The criminal element descended on the buildings like flies on poop. The areas went downhill very, very fast. SUPERVISION terrible, thats why we were there all the time. I agree that people(most) deserve a reliable chance at rehabilitation, but from what I have seen I also would be in the opinion of NIMBY not in my back yard. Most of this mentality of NIMBY is from people that broke there butt all there life to buy a house and are afraid that there family will be in harms way and property values will decrease.

Very good post. From the perspective you offered, I could understand those who would hate to have halfway houses on their blocks. I guess my indifference is because I've grown up in community where drug use is less tabu. Okay, let me break the pc lines for a minute and say what I really want to say:

In black communities, you are usually exposed to someone who has or has had a severe drug problem and has probably been to jail at some time or another, BUT we don't view them as a bad person. Hell, my pastor's son was addicted to cocaine for years and was always in and out of jail, but whenever he was out he came to church and we were always gald to see him. So I don't always equate drug usage + jail time = criminal. The way I was taught is drug addiction is something you get delivered from; drug dealers are criminals.

Plus, my neighborhood ain't all that great to begin with

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by natalayjones

Very good post. From the perspective you offered, I could understand those who would hate to have halfway houses on their blocks. I guess my indifference is because I've grown up in community where drug use is less tabu. Okay, let me break the pc lines for a minute and say what I really want to say:

In black communities, you are usually exposed to someone who has or has had a severe drug problem and has probably been to jail at some time or another, BUT we don't view them as a bad person. Hell, my pastor's son was addicted to cocaine for years and was always in and out of jail, but whenever he was out he came to church and we were always gald to see him. So I don't always equate drug usage + jail time = criminal. The way I was taught is drug addiction is something you get delivered from; drug dealers are criminals.

Plus, my neighborhood ain't all that great to begin with

now you're getting to the heart of why many white people don't care to live with blacks, many blacks share your lenient views and most white people are not tolerant of drug abusers, criminal types and all the problems associated with them. It's a cultural thing not a black versus white thing. In your community a crack head is tolerated in my community he is shunned and disassociated from everyone else. That is why so many whites have fled from the cities with large black populations, your views of the world are not shared by most other people.

Your views are not indicative of the entire black population, in fact many working class blacks have more conservative opinions than whites, they work hard, they make sure their children get an education and make something of themselves and they don't tolerate the popular black culture that is promoted by the media, but there are enough blacks who share your views of undesirables and many whites and working class blacks shun people who share your all too tolerant opinion of druggies and criminals.

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by fastninja500

Not that it happens often but I do believe that when people band together and raise up a storm, government officials do back off their ill-conceived ideas. Bad media and all that.
In both cases, we won and their plans were scrapped. We raised up a real stink about it and hired some excellent lawyers. Basically, threatened to make it very costly for the developers. They blinked and backed off. Even the politicians that were supporting the developers.

Apathy. If you don't care about your neighborhood, chances are, nobody else will.

My 2-cents: voting does matter. A lot. Letter writing and phone calls to politicians also work. Plus hiring some good lawyers. Its definitely better than "the govt is going to do whatever they want so why waste my time voting" .

Of course I know that voting matters, I was speaking of people in general. And my opinions are based on my lifestyle, upbringing and the community I grew up in, so when I use terms like "majority" and "most" I'm basing these words on things I know.

I grew up in Vero Beach, FL; techinally I grew up in Gifford, FL - which up until about 4 years ago was the "black" section of Vero Beach, but you know intergration and all that changed labels - whatever you want to call it, it is what it is.

What happened in your neighborhood wouldn't have happened in mine for the following reasons:

1. This was a neighborhood of lower middle class black people and of another generation. The whole neighborhood was "self-help" houses, which basically means you build the house yourself. There would have been no money to hire lawyers, especially not excellant ones.

2. These are older black people, the majority of the residents were probably 40+, which means segregation was a reality for them not history like it is for me. My grandparents were very much in the mind frame of keeping their heads down, working hard and not causing any trouble. Sadly, many people passed this on to their children, who passed it on to theirs, who passed it on to theirs, etc....

3. Even if the media would have rallied around them, they probably wouldn't have known how to even start something like that. Same goes for letter writing and calling politicians. You'd be shocked at how many people don't know who they county, city or state officials are - and I'm not talking about my grandmother - I'm talking bout these people who work 10 hour days and catch the bus and are on assistance - the ones who should know because they would be the most affected by a bad govt official.

4. That "my vote doesn't count" thinking comes from the lifestyle that you've been subjected to. When your street floods everytime it rains because there are no ditches, or children get run over because of people speeding, and the city knows about it because they're always down there trying to mend. instead of fix then you get the attitude that the govt doesn't really care about you.

Now as I said I can only base this on how I grew up and what I see around me, and while I am talking about in events that happened in the mid 90's (I think the halfway house popped up in 1996) there are still communties like this right now in 2007 and people feeling the same way.

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

now you're getting to the heart of why many white people don't care to live with blacks, many blacks share your lenient views and most white people are not tolerant of drug abusers, criminal types and all the problems associated with them.

And I'm sure you're basing this on the numerous black people who associate with drug users that you're friends with right? And did I say criminals? I was talking about drug addicts - they are not always the same things.

And yeah it is a cultural thing because while many people try to ignore it - there are lots of white people living in the "hood" to.

We are not lenient and tolerant of drug abusers, but it is rare that a black family will "shun" or "disassociate themseleves" from their family. Now Crackhead Jimmy down the street is another story - but when it's your cousin, your son, your brother, your father - we don't say "until you clean up - you don't exist to me". No, you try to help them. And even in helping them, we don't put them in our houses around our children and flat screen tv's....we try to get them in programs where they have professionals who will help them clean up.

So please don't make me sound like I'm saying "Oh yeah cousing Oscar - as soon as you put down your pipe come on in the kitchen and eat breakfast while we watch the Cosbys".

But to keep you from directing more of your thoughts to my posts, my answer to the OP was: Although I would not vote NOT to have a halfway house on my block, I can understand why some wouldn't want it there. However, it would not bother me either way.