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You state that the use of an item in the commission of a crime indicates that the use of the item enabled the extent of the crime. Therefore, that item should be banned to prevent similar crimes in the future. Besides making the false assumption that correlation equals causation, the argument is easily shown to be invalid by using the same logic on other items the shooter used, like a pistol, shoes, or a car. It is invalid because in order for a logical argument to be valid it must be true in the whole world of the argument, not just the small part you choose to address. This is like Logic 101 here.
This should be easy if you're right: give us a valid argument as to how the AR-15's drum magazine enabled the shooter to kill more than he otherwise would have.
Finally, your straw-man argument using items that weren't used in the crime to justify banning an item that was used in the crime is completely unrelated and I don't understand where you came up with it or why you think it applies to this situation. Rape wasn't part of this crime either but it should still be illegal. It's an entirely different issue than what we're talking about.
Carry more bullets, shoot more people, less times to reload to do more damage. There is a reason why our military uses high capacity clips too. That is the issue, so yes I see a problem with high capacity magazines for the purpose they are used for and the reason why they are made in the first place.
I don't think anything needs to be done...I do think there should be less gun free zones but do not advocate forcing it on anyone
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If businesses were held liable for making their establishment gun free, in time the issue would work itself out.
I understand that nothing can prevent this from starting...you do not seem to grasp that concept.
Your logic is also flawed when you suggest that because I'm against more laws that I must therefore be against any laws! That is childish and niave.
So you suggestion is to do nothing, that sounds like a great idea....smh, well it is good to know some people actually care about these issues rather than pretend like there is nothing that can be done other than make it easier for more guns to be available to more people in more locations.
So tell us what absolutely would have stopped this guy then?
To suggest I advocate doing nothing shows your lack of reading comprehension...I have stated many times WHAT I would like to see done and HOW to achieve it.. just because it doesn't mean new laws and less rights doesn't mean its nothing.
And how DARE you suggest I don't care just because I don't support more laws. I am probably closer to this event than you are...
So tell us what absolutely would have stopped this guy then?
To suggest I advocate doing nothing shows your lack of reading comprehension...I have stated many times WHAT I would like to see done and HOW to achieve it.. just because it doesn't mean new laws and less rights doesn't mean its nothing.
And how DARE you suggest I don't care just because I don't support more laws. I am probably closer to this event than you are...
Oh my fault, you want more guns and easier access to guns cause that will solve all our problems....sometimes more and easier isn't the best idea.
And you still haven't answered my question of what is your limit of what should be available to people, I want to know specifically what you would think is too much for someone to have access to. I am guessing your avoidance of that question is because you are afraid it might make you look anti-gun or something, but we all have our limit of what is available to people, even if we try to pretend we don't.
I've answered your question...I don't wish to change ANYTHING! Except the gun free zones!
I'm satisfied with the system as it is as a whole...some places are more lenient than others and THAT is okay with me.
I live in one of the more lenient places by choice.
Or are you suggesting I must have a limit as to how many a person could own? I do not...they are free to spend their money as they choose!
It is YOU whom WANTS something...why do I have to therefore also WANT something equal or opposite?
You are talking your self in circles because you can't make your case. So make your case but stop trying to put words into other peoples mouths.
Quote:
There is a reason why our military uses high capacity clips too.
Actually they do NOT! They carry 30 round clips and each squad has a SAW for suppressing fire which is belt fed. They do NOT use 100 round drum magazines.
I've answered your question...I don't wish to change ANYTHING! Except the gun free zones!
I'm satisfied with the system as it is as a whole...some places are more lenient than others and THAT is okay with me.
I live in one of the more lenient places by choice.
Or are you suggesting I must have a limit as to how many a person could own? I do not...they are free to spend their money as they choose!
It is YOU whom WANTS something...why do I have to therefore also WANT something equal or opposite?
You are talking your self in circles because you can't make your case. So make your case but stop trying to put words into other peoples mouths.
Actually they do NOT! They carry 30 round clips and each squad has a SAW for suppressing fire which is belt fed. They do NOT use 100 round drum magazines.
Good cause I would want that less.
You are also dancing around my question, which I get that, you don't want to sound anti-gun so you stick with I like things the way they are. I want to know what types of weapons you consider to be too much for someone to own, like rocket launchers. See, I am asking this because we all have a limit, like drugs, many feel soda, cigarettes, booze are okay, but some people feel weed should also be okay, but heroine not so much, I just want to know what is your line for type of weapons where you feel like that type of weapon should be illegal...unless you are saying that all forms of weapons should be legal and available to everyone.
I am not saying you are the opposite of my opinion, I am saying you too have a line, but you are not willing to admit what that line is, which I find odd, unless you don't wish to sound anti-gun.
You live in a state that has lax gun laws, but they still have gun laws which means they still have limitations. Should automatic weapons be legal, should rocket launchers, and so on? Or should only semi automatic weapons and lower be legal? Where do you draw your line? I have told you over and over where I draw mine.
I TOLD you already, I'M satisfied with the laws as they ARE!I don't know how you can say I'm dancing around the answer when I've answered it very clearly multiple times!
Look up the laws, everything that IS restricted is acceptable to me...notice I said restricted...not banned.
Everything that is available is okay with me as well...why do I HAVE to want a change? The laws in most states have become more lax and CCWs are available in most states....I'm good with that also! The 90's gun ban is gone....I'm good with that! I can buy any magazine I want....I'm happy with that.
I can buy any semi auto I want....I'm happy with that too! With some money and hoop jumping I could own fully automatic weapons...I'm okay with that!
I'm not going to list every single weapon!
I'm fine the way things are! Except for the gun free zones.
BTW did you know that government buildings can ONLY be deemed gun free zones if they monitor and guard EVERY entrance?
I TOLD you already, I'M satisfied with the laws as they ARE!I don't know how you can say I'm dancing around the answer when I've answered it very clearly multiple times!
Look up the laws, everything that IS restricted is acceptable to me...notice I said restricted...not banned.
Everything that is available is okay with me as well...why do I HAVE to want a change? The laws in most states have become more lax and CCWs are available in most states....I'm good with that also! The 90's gun ban is gone....I'm good with that! I can buy any magazine I want....I'm happy with that.
I can buy any semi auto I want....I'm happy with that too! With some money and hoop jumping I could own fully automatic weapons...I'm okay with that!
I'm not going to list every single weapon!
I'm fine the way things are! Except for the gun free zones.
BTW did you know that government buildings can ONLY be deemed gun free zones if they monitor and guard EVERY entrance?
well I am not happy with the way the law currently is and I hope it gets tighter. I have no problem with limiting availability.
I TOLD you already, I'M satisfied with the laws as they ARE!I don't know how you can say I'm dancing around the answer when I've answered it very clearly multiple times!
Look up the laws, everything that IS restricted is acceptable to me...notice I said restricted...not banned.
Everything that is available is okay with me as well...why do I HAVE to want a change? The laws in most states have become more lax and CCWs are available in most states....I'm good with that also! The 90's gun ban is gone....I'm good with that! I can buy any magazine I want....I'm happy with that.
I can buy any semi auto I want....I'm happy with that too! With some money and hoop jumping I could own fully automatic weapons...I'm okay with that!
I'm not going to list every single weapon!
I'm fine the way things are! Except for the gun free zones.
BTW did you know that government buildings can ONLY be deemed gun free zones if they monitor and guard EVERY entrance?
I agree with everything mentioned above.
I've read thru the past 6 pages of going back and forth and don't want to get involved. Both sides of the aisle have their opinions, but I think the arguments become futile if one side isn't willing to consider the other side, and if both sides aren't open to changing their thought process, or allowing them to evolve.
My mom hates guns and has hated them since I was a child. Speaking to her at times is like speaking to the wall because she isn't open to other points of views, and she has already made up her mind that guns are bad, and that anyone who would want to own one is "bad" .....kinda like how the nypd is trained in the police academy that guns=bad=illegal=automatic criminal, so let's lock him up right away, take him downtown and sort things out afterwards. Either way, despite our differences I still love my mom.
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