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i encourage everyone to watch the video, it's available at gothamist.com among other places
personally i think it's a win for the NYPD. absolute nutjob goes armed and murderous in one of the busiest streets in the world, and is taken down without further deaths aside from original victim and the murderer
it could have been much, much worse. those two officers must have had their adrenaline through the roof
people already complain about the budget of the NYPD. what would weekly target practice do to that? it's going to be hard to maintain a PD of 30,000 sharpshooters
anyone doubting fragments has never considered what happens when a bullet hits concrete. i would have been shocked if there were no fragments or ricochets given how crowded it was
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brehmsstrahlung
I haven't read this whole thread yet, but has anyone suggested the possibility that some of the innocent bystanders were hit by bullets or bullet fragments that had passed through the gunman and exited the other side?
i think NYPD claims 5 or 6 were ricochets and/or fragments, but i could be wrong there. FWIW i think NYPD uses hollow point to reduce the frequency of bullets exiting the intended target
Quote:
Originally Posted by r small
Beat cops and patrolmen should go back to six shot revolvers. The high capacity semi-automatics (15 rounds or more) they carry these days tend to make the cops "spray and pray" when confronted with a situation like the ESB. This would be less likely with six shot revolvers as they would have to make each shot count and think before they shoot.
i don't know if i agree but at least this is a constructive comment rather than a blame game thing
Beat cops and patrolmen should go back to six shot revolvers. The high capacity semi-automatics (15 rounds or more) they carry these days tend to make the cops "spray and pray" when confronted with a situation like the ESB. This would be less likely with six shot revolvers as they would have to make each shot count and think before they shoot.
Right.... and then they'll have no defense against the guys with semi-automatics...
Valid point. But my thinkling is that if a cop is involved in a situation with a heavily armed criminal the cop should, if possible, seek cover and call for back-up. If he has to shoot it out using a revolver hopefully he would be skilled in the use of a speed loader. In a fight between a well trained cop with a revolver and a street thug with a semi-auto, my money is on the cop. Bullet placement trumps firepower. But again, training and practice is the key.
Valid point. But my thinkling is that if a cop is involved in a situation with a heavily armed criminal the cop should, if possible, seek cover and call for back-up. If he has to shoot it out using a revolver hopefully he would be skilled in the use of a speed loader. In a fight between a well trained cop with a revolver and a street thug with a semi-auto, my money is on the cop. Bullet placement trumps firepower. But again, training and practice is the key.
I think in theory that this may be correct. But did you see the video? There was no cover available right there. They were not next to the corner of a building. In the few seconds it would have taken them to get to the corner of a building to take cover, the shooter could have shot and killed more people.
Then everyone would be complaining the cops didn't do their job and more people would be dead.
The cops shot the gunman, and the bullets ricochet off nearby hard acrylic plant holders that are near the curbs on the street. The cops did not directly hit any innocent bystanders w/focused intent. Perhaps next time the cops should let the gunman shoot everyone in sight before they stop the threat and intervene. People will always complain. The cops can never do right in other peoples eyes. Those cops saved many lives- it could have been a lot worse. I'm confident all those people that were hit by bullets that ricochet will be suing the City so the bullets will be worth it in the end ... that's the American way: SUE ! I already saw some big heavy Tour Guide milking it for the cameras- how stressful, and it clipped his arm ... Please. He has a lawyer already I'm sure.
I'm pro-cop. What did the innocent bystanders think was going on, it was some Law & Order episode being filmed ... They should have emptied their gun on the guy, 16 rounds was not enough. NYC cops work hard, and they earn every cent of their salary ... There is crime in the city every single day. Bloomberg says crime is going down - where is he hanging out, the Hamptons ???
I have to say, I think the construction worker that alerted the cops is a true hero. If he didn't say anything, A LOT more people would have died ....
The gunman was on a murder/suicide mission - he knew he was never getting out of that situation a live. That area is covered with cops at that hour of the morning. Additionally, I read the gunman, Jeffrey Johnson was stalking the other guy, Steven Ercolino for a year. They both had complaints filed against one another, and Jeffrey had been fired ... It's a shame that the former manager didn't take the threats seriously .... That gunman waited outside that morning for him till he arrived to work ...
The gunman was OCD, and clearly had deranged, twisted, unbalanced head issues.
I was reading about the guy that died, Steven Ercolino. Sad. He was a good son, brother, boyfriend, Uncle, Godfather and friend to all those around him ... he was very into his family, he came from a big close family, and his work meant a lot to him. He was into sports, fashion, and traveling ... he traveled often for business and pleasure. He loved life, and was always smiling said the local surrounding bars/restaurants. He had just returned from Mexico with his girlfriend, and had spent a recent week at his parents house with all his family - it was heartbreaking to read. A killing that did not have to happen.
My heart goes out to the family, friends, and fiance of the deceased, Mr Steven Ercolino. They must be completely devastated ... I am sad for them during this very difficult time.
I think in theory that this may be correct. But did you see the video? There was no cover available right there. They were not next to the corner of a building. In the few seconds it would have taken them to get to the corner of a building to take cover, the shooter could have shot and killed more people.
Then everyone would be complaining the cops didn't do their job and more people would be dead.
I have to say, I think the construction worker that alerted the cops is a true hero. If he didn't say anything, A LOT more people would have died ....
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna
Then everyone would be complaining the cops didn't do their job and more people would be dead
I like how everyone now has a crystal ball they've consulted and is capable of knowing he would have went on a shooting rampage killing many people. As popular a theory as it is right now to believe that everyone who has a gun is some wackadoo nutjob just waiting to kill a bunch of innocent people, thats just not the case.
Seems to me that this guy clearly had a specific target and a motive and reason for shooting the coworker. Of course, that doesn't make the situation any better, but there is nothing to support the notion that this guy would have killed anyone but his intended target other than the fact that he turned the gun on police, which would appear to be a Suicide By Cop.
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Originally Posted by NooYowkur81
Having looser gun laws doesn't guarantee well trained responsible gun owners either though...it means just that easier legal access to a gun.
You are right. Having looser gun laws needs to be accompanied by a "shall carry" law, that allows for a CCW training program that the common man/woman living in NYC can afford and access.
I like how everyone now has a crystal ball they've consulted and is capable of knowing he would have went on a shooting rampage killing many people. As popular a theory as it is right now to believe that everyone who has a gun is some wackadoo nutjob just waiting to kill a bunch of innocent people, thats just not the case.
Seems to me that this guy clearly had a specific target and a motive and reason for shooting the coworker. Of course, that doesn't make the situation any better, but there is nothing to support the notion that this guy would have killed anyone but his intended target other than the fact that he turned the gun on police, which would appear to be a Suicide By Cop.
You are right. Having looser gun laws needs to be accompanied by a "shall carry" law, that allows for a CCW training program that the common man/woman living in NYC can afford and access.
Hello, you quoted me and accused me of acting like I have a crystal ball. Not only did you quote me, but you took part of my post out of context and even bolded it. Why don't you go back and re-read what I wrote. Pay careful attention to the verb tenses that I used... like "could". If you forgot your elementary school English lessons, the word "could" is a conditional tense.
What I said was the shooter COULD HAVE shot more people if the cops had taken time to take cover. And THEN more people would be dead.
Using the conditional tense means that I am suggesting a possible scenario. Suggesting a possible scenario is not the same as acting like I have a crystal ball.
Please read more carefully next time before you go about making crystal ball accusations. Thanks.
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