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Most NYers biggest expense is their rent. People can live on much less what has been suggested if people learn to economize. It all really depends on what kind of lifestyle one expects to have.
I don't think people exaggerate the cost of living. Most people who create posts asking how much money they'll need to move to NYC tend to ask specifically for trendy areas of Manhattan because they don't want to live in/know nothing about the outer boroughs.
I do it and I only make 50K with a family of four. Hopefully wifey gets this job fingers crossed. But I live in a pretty bad neighborhood so thats the trade-off. Only difference is we both grew up out here so we're comfortable with the area.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
This is what I wish I could post in every single thread where someone asks about the COL.
New York is by no means a cheap city, I think we can all agree. But does anyone else feel that people exaggerate the cost of living, making it seem like a place that's near impossible to live?
I keep reading threads asking "how much do I need to make to live comfortably in NYC?" or something to that affect, and while some do answer with the only true answer, "depends on your lifestyle", most people seem to go a bit overboard with how much you need to make to live here.
If you're looking to live in lower manhattan, eat out at fancy restaurants 3 meals a day, and buy $13 cocktails when you go out every night, then yeah, you're going to need quite a bit of money.
I understand that this forum is comprised of a lot of older people with established careers and families who may be into pursuing the finer things, but for people who are young I find that many of the threads blow things out of proportion and can be very discouraging.
You would think that you either had to have some high paying big-wig financial job or huddle into a 1 bedroom apartment with 12 of your family members in order to live here.
The truth is that there is absolutely a middle ground. From rents, to food, to entertainment, the choice is really yours! Just because you won't be able to afford a loft in Soho and eat at a michelin 3 star restaurant every time you get hungry doesn't mean that you can't live a comfortable life here and have a good time in the process.
I see people quoting figures of 150K and up for manhattan and 60-75k for the outer boros. While this may be a good figure for some people (especially in manhattan), one can live here for much cheaper without having to live in a closet and eat ramen noodles and easy mac.
There are plenty of us here in our 20s who don't have high paying salaried office jobs and who don't have financial backing from rich parents. I'm talking about people who come here to pursue things like music, acting, film, etc and live just fine working in restaurants and bars.
If you can find a room-mate or move here with a friend you could easily find a nice 2 bedroom apartment in any number of decent neighborhoods for under $2000. I'm not talking about scary and dangerous hoods, i'm talking places that are within a 20 minute commute to Manhattan, and even places that are pretty hip (code for lots of young people, night life, etc.) In neighborhoods such as Astoria, Sunnyside, Long Island City, or Greenpoint you can find 2 bedrooms in the $1600-$1800 range. I'm not talking shoeboxes either, I'm talking legit 2 bedrooms with full size rooms, nice hardwood floors, a kitchen with a full size stove and oven, and even a patio. That's only $900 per person per month. Less than $12,000 a year for rent. If the standard "rent should be 1/3 of your paycheck" rule applies here you only need to make $36,000 a year. Definitely possible to make that working at a busy bar or nice restaurant where you can potentially pull in hundreds of dollars per night.
Your next biggest expense (depending on the person of course) will probably be food. This is where your choices really dictate your cost of living. I have had some of the best meals of my life in this city for under $10. Big ass bowls of healthy and delicious thai curry, incredible gyros and kebabs, pizza for a few bucks a slice, etc. Hell, you can get a decent sized falafel sandwich for $2.50! There is such a plethora of awesome, authentic, and cheap food here that i'm actually amazed how many people overspend when they don't necessarily need to. Not to mention if you buy groceries and substitute some of your meals at home.
Same goes for entertainment. If going to a mad men style bar whipping up $14 manhattans is your thing then yeah, you will need a significant amount of money. But you can also catch happy hour at any number of bars in the city and get a flavorful craft beer for $5. Or how about a bar serving $3 tecates on a saturday night in one of the "coolest" neighborhoods in the city? There are music shows all over the city that can be as cheap as a few bucks to get in to. Some of them are even free.
Basically I just want to show other young people who are thinking about moving here that it really is doable. You can live here pretty comfortably on not all that much money.
Its because of the sacrifices. In Middle America, and much of the South, people rely on automobiles and the entire point is home ownership because rent is cheaper. Could be an approximation on what it costs to have the same type of lifestyle they have where they're from in New York. People quickly forget that you don't have to spend a lot of money going out to the movies for entertainment, that you don't need a car or automobile insurance, and that you don't need a cable subscription. Quite honestly, I think that a cable television subscription is crap, and you're better off going outside and interacting with people (even if that does mean driving around), but to each their own.
Even if ownership is not the point of living in New York City it is easier to describe expenses to someone from say, Atlanta, or Charlotte, in that way. There might also be an assumption that a newbie is going to partake of all of the expensive diversions of the city just because they are there, whereas those that have been in New York for a while probably know what traps to avoid.
I think the OP is probably right and the evidence of that is the sheer number of young people in NYC. I doubt that they're all supported by millionaire families and they do seem to be finding ways to enjoy their youth in a big city. If NYC was as prohibitively expensive as some claim I think the average age here would skew older. But that's just based on my observations of visiting NYC, I certainly could be wrong since I don't live in NYC.
One other point that supports the argument: could the "best-and-the-brighest" line be a bit of an exaggeration? I attended several shows in Times Square, watched the street performers and the dancers, and to be honest none of those performances really seemed world-class to me, but they drew wild cheers and large crowds. From my perspective most of these artists/musicians seemed a bit mediocre and I expected more, but the audiences seemed like they were easy to please. So, to all the aspiring musicians/"creative" types/etc., you probably shouldn't underestimate your chances of making it in NYC if you're pretty good at what you do. I don't think you will necessarily be judged by some very rigorous standard from what I saw. Again--just an observation.
I think the OP is probably right and the evidence of that is the sheer number of young people in NYC. I doubt that they're all supported by millionaire families and they do seem to be finding ways to enjoy their youth in a big city. If NYC was as prohibitively expensive as some claim I think the average age here would skew older. But that's just based on my observations of visiting NYC, I certainly could be wrong since I don't live in NYC.
I'm -somewhat- on the younger side, and I know a good share of people under 30.
Those who live in Manhattan, under 96th street, are heavily supported by family, or were heavily supported by family when they were in school, thus no loans/debt.
I think the OP is probably right and the evidence of that is the sheer number of young people in NYC. I doubt that they're all supported by millionaire families and they do seem to be finding ways to enjoy their youth in a big city. If NYC was as prohibitively expensive as some claim I think the average age here would skew older. But that's just based on my observations of visiting NYC, I certainly could be wrong since I don't live in NYC.
One other point that supports the argument: could the "best-and-the-brighest" line be a bit of an exaggeration? I attended several shows in Times Square, watched the street performers and the dancers, and to be honest none of those performances really seemed world-class to me, but they drew wild cheers and large crowds. From my perspective most of these artists/musicians seemed a bit mediocre and I expected more, but the audiences seemed like they were easy to please. So, to all the aspiring musicians/"creative" types/etc., you probably shouldn't underestimate your chances of making it in NYC if you're pretty good at what you do. I don't think you will necessarily be judged by some very rigorous standard from what I saw. Again--just an observation.
I'm don't think it's fair to judge the talent in NY based on the performers in Times Square and on the street. I've only visited the city once and I only walked through Times Square for a few minutes just so I could see it, and it doesn't seem like the kind of place that top performers would be working. It's a tourist trap, so the bar doesn't have to be that high. As for the street performers... if they were so great, why are they on the street? I don't doubt they have talent, but they're not likely to be world class talent if they're working on the street.
edit: Almost 10% of Fortune 500 companies are headquartered in New York City. NYC is the financial, art, and design center of the US. It does arguably have the best and brightest in many different fields.
This is what I wish I could post in every single thread where someone asks about the COL.
New York is by no means a cheap city, I think we can all agree. But does anyone else feel that people exaggerate the cost of living, making it seem like a place that's near impossible to live?
I keep reading threads asking "how much do I need to make to live comfortably in NYC?" or something to that affect, and while some do answer with the only true answer, "depends on your lifestyle", most people seem to go a bit overboard with how much you need to make to live here.
If you're looking to live in lower manhattan, eat out at fancy restaurants 3 meals a day, and buy $13 cocktails when you go out every night, then yeah, you're going to need quite a bit of money.
I understand that this forum is comprised of a lot of older people with established careers and families who may be into pursuing the finer things, but for people who are young I find that many of the threads blow things out of proportion and can be very discouraging.
You would think that you either had to have some high paying big-wig financial job or huddle into a 1 bedroom apartment with 12 of your family members in order to live here.
The truth is that there is absolutely a middle ground. From rents, to food, to entertainment, the choice is really yours! Just because you won't be able to afford a loft in Soho and eat at a michelin 3 star restaurant every time you get hungry doesn't mean that you can't live a comfortable life here and have a good time in the process.
I see people quoting figures of 150K and up for manhattan and 60-75k for the outer boros. While this may be a good figure for some people (especially in manhattan), one can live here for much cheaper without having to live in a closet and eat ramen noodles and easy mac.
There are plenty of us here in our 20s who don't have high paying salaried office jobs and who don't have financial backing from rich parents. I'm talking about people who come here to pursue things like music, acting, film, etc and live just fine working in restaurants and bars.
If you can find a room-mate or move here with a friend you could easily find a nice 2 bedroom apartment in any number of decent neighborhoods for under $2000. I'm not talking about scary and dangerous hoods, i'm talking places that are within a 20 minute commute to Manhattan, and even places that are pretty hip (code for lots of young people, night life, etc.) In neighborhoods such as Astoria, Sunnyside, Long Island City, or Greenpoint you can find 2 bedrooms in the $1600-$1800 range. I'm not talking shoeboxes either, I'm talking legit 2 bedrooms with full size rooms, nice hardwood floors, a kitchen with a full size stove and oven, and even a patio. That's only $900 per person per month. Less than $12,000 a year for rent. If the standard "rent should be 1/3 of your paycheck" rule applies here you only need to make $36,000 a year. Definitely possible to make that working at a busy bar or nice restaurant where you can potentially pull in hundreds of dollars per night.
Your next biggest expense (depending on the person of course) will probably be food. This is where your choices really dictate your cost of living. I have had some of the best meals of my life in this city for under $10. Big ass bowls of healthy and delicious thai curry, incredible gyros and kebabs, pizza for a few bucks a slice, etc. Hell, you can get a decent sized falafel sandwich for $2.50! There is such a plethora of awesome, authentic, and cheap food here that i'm actually amazed how many people overspend when they don't necessarily need to. Not to mention if you buy groceries and substitute some of your meals at home.
Same goes for entertainment. If going to a mad men style bar whipping up $14 manhattans is your thing then yeah, you will need a significant amount of money. But you can also catch happy hour at any number of bars in the city and get a flavorful craft beer for $5. Or how about a bar serving $3 tecates on a saturday night in one of the "coolest" neighborhoods in the city? There are music shows all over the city that can be as cheap as a few bucks to get in to. Some of them are even free.
Basically I just want to show other young people who are thinking about moving here that it really is doable. You can live here pretty comfortably on not all that much money.
inspironmini - you are absolutely right in your assessment. If I went by people's eye-popping cost of living estimates, I would never have stepped out of my hometown. I lived in NYC on very little and had an awesome time (I was young and flexible, of course). It was a time in my life I didn't find it necessary to eat at fancy restaurants all the time. There are so many cool off-Broadway shows (and great deals on Broadway shows as well). There are interesting lectures, readings, stand up comics, bands - just great stuff. It wasn't a rarity to walk aimlessly, exploring different neighborhoods. One of my best memories is walking 60 blocks on a winter day, stopping wherever. In my time there, I probably know NYC more intimately than others who feel intimidated if they don't have the money to shop on 5th Ave. and hit the high-end clubs. Certainly, that's a great side of NYC but discovering/exploring a new city involves more than just dropping wads of cash. I agree with the OP that it would be a shame for people to stay away just because of the blown-out-of-proportion COL.
For that matter, I would never have lived in San Francisco, Seattle, Washington DC, Miami. I see a lot of exaggerations on here, but hopefully, people do their research.
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