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To me it is more about quality of your life, and conveniences. Here are the scenarios for "regular" people making less than $50K:
1. You are ok with roomates (possibly 1-3 of them, depending on where you want to live) and all the drama that comes with that.
2. You want to live alone and are ok with a 1 bed/studio basement apt in a far flung part of NYC, with not the best public transportation, but the nabe is decent.
3. You want to live alone and are ok with a 1 bed/studio basement apt in the inner ring of acceptable Manhattan commutes (30 minutes or less), but the nabe is not decent.
4. You are ok with simply renting a room in prime districts of Manhattan, possibly with 1-3 strangers, but you "spend all your time outside".
All of the above assumes single people. If you are a family on $50K, your options are far more limited:
1. You get lucky and live in new affordable housing in a good area of the city. You are lucky, but not quite as lucky, and move into a "transitioning" area of the city in new affordable housing (Southern Bronx, Harlem).
2. You live in a far flung area with limited transportation options, but decent neighborhood.
3. You live in a not so great area, and not so great place, but closer to the city.
In all the above scenarios, you have little to no savings, and really live paycheck to paycheck.
I dont think its an exaggeration of how expensive it is to live in NYC when you have to take into account that it's probably in the top 3 most expensive cities in the nation to live in.
I have a friend who works for UPS in Delaware making $13hr while his wife works as a receptionists at a doctors office making similar money. They have a 3br 2bathroom house, 2 cars, a motorcycle and still live fairly comfortable. In NYC you would barely be able to come up with your half of the rent in a shared apt with a salary of $13hr.
Yep. And this is why people describe the cost of living this way. You only like this uncomfortable lifestyle in a few years of your 20's. I'm 30 and I wouldn't want to skimp this much. Would prefer something more comfortable. So, there you have it.
I think in part that's to normalize what people's expected standard of living. People not from the area is not going to be expecting to share with roommates. That's just NOT typical, or even socially acceptable, in most places in the USA outside NYC. People in their twenties with a decent job (not high paying) wouldn't need to worry about entertainment because cocktails are $8, not $16. So, yes, people can absolutely make choices and lower their standard of living to what their wages will allow them. But the higher quote normalize to the life they would have had in their hometown.
in DC new grads living with roommates is routine. When I moved to Jacksonville florida in the 1980s I knew young professionals with rommates - it was just an easy way to start ones social life as someone new to an area.
This is what I wish I could post in every single thread where someone asks about the COL.
New York is by no means a cheap city, I think we can all agree. But does anyone else feel that people exaggerate the cost of living, making it seem like a place that's near impossible to live?
I keep reading threads asking "how much do I need to make to live comfortably in NYC?" or something to that affect, and while some do answer with the only true answer, "depends on your lifestyle", most people seem to go a bit overboard with how much you need to make to live here.
If you're looking to live in lower manhattan, eat out at fancy restaurants 3 meals a day, and buy $13 cocktails when you go out every night, then yeah, you're going to need quite a bit of money.
I understand that this forum is comprised of a lot of older people with established careers and families who may be into pursuing the finer things, but for people who are young I find that many of the threads blow things out of proportion and can be very discouraging.
You would think that you either had to have some high paying big-wig financial job or huddle into a 1 bedroom apartment with 12 of your family members in order to live here.
The truth is that there is absolutely a middle ground. From rents, to food, to entertainment, the choice is really yours! Just because you won't be able to afford a loft in Soho and eat at a michelin 3 star restaurant every time you get hungry doesn't mean that you can't live a comfortable life here and have a good time in the process.
I see people quoting figures of 150K and up for manhattan and 60-75k for the outer boros. While this may be a good figure for some people (especially in manhattan), one can live here for much cheaper without having to live in a closet and eat ramen noodles and easy mac.
There are plenty of us here in our 20s who don't have high paying salaried office jobs and who don't have financial backing from rich parents. I'm talking about people who come here to pursue things like music, acting, film, etc and live just fine working in restaurants and bars.
If you can find a room-mate or move here with a friend you could easily find a nice 2 bedroom apartment in any number of decent neighborhoods for under $2000. I'm not talking about scary and dangerous hoods, i'm talking places that are within a 20 minute commute to Manhattan, and even places that are pretty hip (code for lots of young people, night life, etc.) In neighborhoods such as Astoria, Sunnyside, Long Island City, or Greenpoint you can find 2 bedrooms in the $1600-$1800 range. I'm not talking shoeboxes either, I'm talking legit 2 bedrooms with full size rooms, nice hardwood floors, a kitchen with a full size stove and oven, and even a patio. That's only $900 per person per month. Less than $12,000 a year for rent. If the standard "rent should be 1/3 of your paycheck" rule applies here you only need to make $36,000 a year. Definitely possible to make that working at a busy bar or nice restaurant where you can potentially pull in hundreds of dollars per night.
Your next biggest expense (depending on the person of course) will probably be food. This is where your choices really dictate your cost of living. I have had some of the best meals of my life in this city for under $10. Big ass bowls of healthy and delicious thai curry, incredible gyros and kebabs, pizza for a few bucks a slice, etc. Hell, you can get a decent sized falafel sandwich for $2.50! There is such a plethora of awesome, authentic, and cheap food here that i'm actually amazed how many people overspend when they don't necessarily need to. Not to mention if you buy groceries and substitute some of your meals at home.
Same goes for entertainment. If going to a mad men style bar whipping up $14 manhattans is your thing then yeah, you will need a significant amount of money. But you can also catch happy hour at any number of bars in the city and get a flavorful craft beer for $5. Or how about a bar serving $3 tecates on a saturday night in one of the "coolest" neighborhoods in the city? There are music shows all over the city that can be as cheap as a few bucks to get in to. Some of them are even free.
Basically I just want to show other young people who are thinking about moving here that it really is doable. You can live here pretty comfortably on not all that much money.
on the bolded part, thats 600 a month to much ....per preson
Me i lived on before moving in with my girlfriend and our newborn and her daughter in the area of $46,000.oo a year and most of that was spent on rent in the area i lived in .Along with the basic fact that i do not go out to bars or other high end places .
Me i'm a meat and potatoes type of guy and i eat and go to places where i can get a good meal for my dollars that i'm going to spend when i'm out plus the bookstore and the movie's are about the only thing i do spend money on when
i'm home from Az .
Now with a newborn in the house it gone up to about $80,000.oo a year and that because i have to get the items that a newborn child needs every day .We moved into a larger 3.bedroom place along with having a part time nanny to watch the child when i'm out of town
You can live on less but as one person put it you have to make choices about where and how you spend your money in the city plus given the fact that the most of the money you spend is on rent it breaks down to the simple fact where do you want to live at in the city
yes you can live in nyc at reasonable cost but that involves having extra guests in your home daily...i am not talking about roommate buddies. i am talking about roaches, rats, and mice. then you can also include "i can't go out after 6 pm because of the thugs loitering downstairs" and that music blasting all night (not kidding) in spanish harlem by people who have no jobs. THAT is what you will be able to afford. it's not even luxury what i am talking about. these are basic things everyone wants. a clean home with no major safety issues outdoors. if you have a job, you cannot negotiate "i will be ok with music blasting outside all night" with yourself.
no one is exaggerating. everyone is on point because we live here and go through it daily.
No, it is *NOT* an exaggeration, NY is a very high COL and tax place to live. However it is relative to one's point of view.
For those that were raised here and or have long established residency it is all one knows and you simply accept things are what they are.
Recent transplants however often remark at the high COL of NYC/NYS and it is one of the reasons many do not make place a permanent home.
When you realize how much *LESS* things such as a simple gallon of milk cost most anywhere else it dawns upon you just how expensive things truly are in NYC.
For most the high COL is offset by all and sundry reasons for remaining, others get fed up and leave. And yes, many do remain in NYC all their lives, but as the numbers of those living in or near poverty grow it shows many also did not have a plan "B".
Yes, long as one is young and or healthy enough to work almost all the hours God has given and or otherwise hustle to keep things together than the high COL of NYC is not a problem, in theory at least. However as many have noted up thread and as backed up by research no small number of NYC residents are living very close to the window's edge. That is they are going from paycheck to paycheck with little to no savings. What smoothes things over for even those with "good" incomes is access to credit. Not only can the use of debt allow one to say eat and or even pay utility bills and defer actual payment for another time, it can and often does in no small way fuel the NYC "lifestyle".
By the latter one means it is never wise to assume just because someone is living their dream life in NYC that they are making bank.
Am sorry, but living with roommates is something one does for the first few years after college IMHO. Once one is near or pass thirty is really is time to put on one's big boy (or girl) pants and live as an adult, that is alone unless married/romantically involved.
That being said due to high COL and especially housing costs (and also limited supply), historically boarding/roommate situations go on longer hear and or are more common for adults than elsewhere. The Sunday NYT real estate section just did (another) story about living via the "buddy system", (as roommates are now apparently called), as a way for not only young adults but even middle aged and seniors whom are single to deal with high NYC housing costs.
Everyone knows NYC/NYS is a high COL area and it affects literally ever aspect of the economy. From wages paid to employees, hiring decisions etc... right down to the cost of goods and services. All of it has the high costs factored into the price. I know persons who take the PATH from lower Manhattan over to NJ to grocery shop (or drive if they have access to a vehicle) because food prices are cheaper.
Finally there was also an article in the NYT (or was it WSJ?) recently about how young adults and even some middle aged are leaving high cost areas such as NYC, SF etc... for places like Oklahoma and other places with lower COL. For what they paid in rent for a closet sized space with roommates say in SF or NYC they can get a huge apartment or even home rental *by themselves*. In many instances finding employment is easier and they do not have to work nearly 24/7 to keep make ends meet.
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