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56K sounds about right for a starting salary at the Big 4 firms, most of them also throw in 5K sign-on bonus, sort of to cover for expenses such as cost of business suits, and another 5K on top if you are relocating for the job. If you have an offer from one of the Big 4's in Chicago vs. the Big 4 in NYC, on a surface, it might seem that Chicago is a better bet doe to shorter hours and cheaper cost of living, however, you need to figure out what is your ultimate reason of working for the Big4. a. Is it just to get the CPA license, which by the way, in many states is no longer required. b.Is it to have the name on the resume and use that as leverage to find a 9-5 painless job where the rest of the drones will treat you like the top authority because you came from Big 4? c. Is it to make a partner? d. Is it to find a job with a client that will turn into a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity? If the answer is a or b, then I would stay in Chicago. If, however, you are so ambitious that the answers are c or d, NYC is the place to be simply because the type of clients you will be working on here will be creme de la crop, especially, if you land in the alternative investments practice/investment management/financial services, i.e hedge funds/private equity/the rest of the Wall Street. These clients require insane hours on the engagement because they are so deadline-driven so 60-70 hour workweek during a busy season is actually light, it's more like 80 to 100, no joke, and when things get really close to deadline, don't be surprised to work 18 hour days for 2 weeks straight because the client happens to be the best client your partner has, meaning, they pay on time, don't dispute bills, treat partner's staff with respect (you can't believe how many clients are openly hostile to the auditors), and treat partner as a trusted advisor, so he would be willing himself to bust his behind in case of crisis. With the headache, however, come immense opportunities such as joining that same client a very nice 6, potentially growing into 7 figure comp if you are that good. This road is not for everyone, and as a client, I have seen our enagement managers and seniors come and go, mostly, leaving the public firm for more laid-back environments, however, there are a few who decided to stay, they are either clearly on a partner's track, or are waiting for that once in a lifetime opportunity. I do want to point out though one interesting paradox-despite the hours, most of the people I speak to who work in public say that they have more flexibility during non-busy season, for example, taking 3 weeks off vacation, not coming into the office at all and not being charged vacation day for it, working from home, etc, which I, working in private, fewer hours, don't have. We had someone who came to us from public to escape the long hours, he lasted 3 months, and went back to the same firm, told me that he did not have any flexibility (well, we are financial services, so I guess might be even worse than public).
^^excellent post. Listen to someone like this who is in the industry. Some people don't understand this industry & how it works...then post up silly comments. There is a real valid reason why some people pull in big salaries and make partner at what appears to be a young age.
56K sounds about right for a starting salary at the Big 4 firms, most of them also throw in 5K sign-on bonus, sort of to cover for expenses such as cost of business suits, and another 5K on top if you are relocating for the job. If you have an offer from one of the Big 4's in Chicago vs. the Big 4 in NYC, on a surface, it might seem that Chicago is a better bet doe to shorter hours and cheaper cost of living, however, you need to figure out what is your ultimate reason of working for the Big4. a. Is it just to get the CPA license, which by the way, in many states is no longer required. b.Is it to have the name on the resume and use that as leverage to find a 9-5 painless job where the rest of the drones will treat you like the top authority because you came from Big 4? c. Is it to make a partner? d. Is it to find a job with a client that will turn into a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity? If the answer is a or b, then I would stay in Chicago. If, however, you are so ambitious that the answers are c or d, NYC is the place to be simply because the type of clients you will be working on here will be creme de la crop, especially, if you land in the alternative investments practice/investment management/financial services, i.e hedge funds/private equity/the rest of the Wall Street. These clients require insane hours on the engagement because they are so deadline-driven so 60-70 hour workweek during a busy season is actually light, it's more like 80 to 100, no joke, and when things get really close to deadline, don't be surprised to work 18 hour days for 2 weeks straight because the client happens to be the best client your partner has, meaning, they pay on time, don't dispute bills, treat partner's staff with respect (you can't believe how many clients are openly hostile to the auditors), and treat partner as a trusted advisor, so he would be willing himself to bust his behind in case of crisis. With the headache, however, come immense opportunities such as joining that same client a very nice 6, potentially growing into 7 figure comp if you are that good. This road is not for everyone, and as a client, I have seen our enagement managers and seniors come and go, mostly, leaving the public firm for more laid-back environments, however, there are a few who decided to stay, they are either clearly on a partner's track, or are waiting for that once in a lifetime opportunity. I do want to point out though one interesting paradox-despite the hours, most of the people I speak to who work in public say that they have more flexibility during non-busy season, for example, taking 3 weeks off vacation, not coming into the office at all and not being charged vacation day for it, working from home, etc, which I, working in private, fewer hours, don't have. We had someone who came to us from public to escape the long hours, he lasted 3 months, and went back to the same firm, told me that he did not have any flexibility (well, we are financial services, so I guess might be even worse than public).
+1
Btw
LMAO at the ones who think an entry-level anything has the leverage to negotiate compensation, especially when they're attempting to join the gold standard of the industry.
LMAO at the ones who think an entry-level anything has the leverage to negotiate compensation, especially when they're attempting to join the gold standard of the industry.
its been a long time but I remember my buddies back then had said some of the top tier (think harvard, princeton, etc) do start at a slightly higher salary. It would make sense since every other firm wants the best & brightest. Its def true that salary negiotiation is virtually non-existent for entry level in a large top tier firms
Ivy League grads do start higher, however, I have mostly seen it in the investment banking at the MBA level. I can tell you that from my graduation class, NYU Stern 1995, accounting major, most of the students landed at the then Big 6, starting salary 35K, those who were at the top of the class, and I mean, really bright students, practically all of them males who have chosen accounting as a major because back in 1991, when we were all freshmen, things on Wall st and economy in general were so bad that advisors openly said those who want to major in finance can count at most to be employed as math teachers in high school, but when we graduated, the economy was booming, so the smartest of the accounting majors crop ended up in investment banking, making 45K, many of them going back for their MBA's, and the top guy in the class landed in management consulting, at 60K back then it felt like he struck the gold, I still remember him bragging how he paid off the 20K of student loan from one bonus. As an entry-level hire, the most you can negotiate for are relocation expenses-depending on what company's policy is-pay for the actual incurred, or give you a flat fee, you might be able to save a couple of grand there.
Working for Big 4 is about experience and relationships and also, often, meeting that someone special-working all these long hours with like-minded people, I have seen quite a few marriages, we always tease our auditors as to who is next.
I mean, really bright students, practically all of them males who have chosen accounting as a major because back in 1991, when we were all freshmen, things on Wall st and economy in general were so bad that advisors openly said those who want to major in finance can count at most to be employed as math teachers in high school, but when we graduated, the economy was booming, so the smartest of the accounting majors crop ended up in investment banking, making 45K, many of them going back for their MBA's, and the top guy in the class landed in management consulting, at 60K back then it felt like he struck the gold, .
i could of sworn every other stern grad was a finance major during this era. It was so competitive, they decided to have a special & more harsher grade curve for finance majors.....maybe accounting majors too.
You shouldnt think sometimes because it causes your fingers to type something so grossly wrong.
I guess then you know nothing of the history of the 2008 crash.
One of the primary causes of the crash was the collusion of incompetent accounting firms simply signing off on nonsense presented to them by crooked corporations.
So I repeat:
Quote:
I thought the big 4 accounting firms just signed off on the corporate paperwork without actually having to read any of it.
you went to stern and write "I could of sworn"....
LOL. It's possible. You could major in math and crush your GMATs and be a terrible writer. There are also a lot of lawyers that are terrible writers.
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