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I'm not sure that I believe the idea that some people just aren't good at math. I think some just do not have the proper discipline or guidance or just believe it is a useless set of theories (or just find it boring as *****). But it develops ones logic that can become very beneficial in the real World.
When it comes to doing math at higher levels, yes you have to be talented for it. You can give people the same guidance for math but some individuals will still do better than others. This is the same for any subject.
People who like the arts and writing tend not to be good at math. Math oriented people tend not to be good in the creative fields.
Chinese dude speaking here.... I'm not naturally born good at math, and I personally hated studying math.
However, I studied to be good in math (and all school subjects for that matter) because:
Good math=good grades=good school/college=medical school=good job and lots of $$$$.
Calculus has no use in my life and its not even used in clinical medicine.
But being good at it helped pay my Mortgage.
BTW, my SAT verbal score was higher than my math.
Which means you came from poverty, and it explains the attitude you have. In poor families of any race it's a big deal if you get a kid to become a doctor.
From more affluent families, kids tend to study whatever they're personally interested in and find ways of making money off that.
And no, math oriented jobs don't necessarily pay better than jobs that aren't math oriented.
You could have a degree in English, History, or some other art or humanity and go to law school and become a top lawyer, go into politics, or go into the corporate sector. Or you could study drama and if you're good at it, become a top actor. It worked well for Meryl Streep. Elizabeth Gilbert, writer of Eat, Pray, and Love wrote a book that was made into a movie starring Julia Roberts. She has an English degree from NYU. Of course, Julia herself has no degree.
And for those of you who say the entertainment industry is a small sector of the economy, there are people who have opened up businesses or who have made money in fields like real estate who weren't math wizs. Or made decent money in advertising.
It's actually proof that your parents had a lack of an education if they drilled into you the only jobs that paid well are medical/science jobs.
When it comes to doing math at higher levels, yes you have to be talented for it. You can give people the same guidance for math but some individuals will still do better than others. This is the same for any subject.
People who like the arts and writing tend not to be good at math. Math oriented people tend not to be good in the creative fields.
I dunno what you define as higher math, but let's talk about Calculus. Calculus does not take natural talent in my opinion. With practice and some critical thinking skills you can work through it. You also need prerequesite knowledge of algebra and other math topics that are incorporated into Calculus. I agree with G Dale, Math at its most basic level start with some postulates and then builds up from those postulates. Logical thinking and practice are the key elements imo.
It bothers me when people set up this dichotomy between "humanities" and math and use it as an excuse to justify ignorance. We'd be a way more informed populace if people had a basic grasp of basic economics and statistics, for example.
Math oriented people tend not to be good in the creative fields.
Not true. Both music and fine art have a strong mathematical element. Many consider math to be an art because it involves skill whether developed or inherited. When applying it to real World problems is when it becomes a science. Some even consider math to be beautiful in a similar way others may find a portrait in a gallery to be beautiful.
It's actually proof that your parents had a lack of an education if they drilled into you the only jobs that paid well are medical/science jobs.
Wow, your statement is proof that you are a complete idiot, and that I should get back to work and stop having idiotic discussions with morons on the internet.
They do indeed have adequate resources and capabilities to make informed decisions. Not everyone will make the decisions you want or prefer them to make.
The consensus of this thread seems to be everyone should want an upper middle class career. Not everyone does. Not everyone wants to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer. There are all sorts of jobs for all sorts of people.
The talk about education remains just that, talk, as the majority of the people worldwide work working class jobs that do not require a college education. That will never change.
The majority of people in NYC, like any other place, do not have college degrees. The number of people working in retail and low end services far outnumbers the professional jobs.
I'm not saying everyone has to be a doctor. I'm saying a society where children are limited because of the circumstances they are born into is not a fair society. I'm saying that if there are forces at work we don't understand that are stopping people from reaching their full potential, it's worthwhile to try and identify those forces and think up solutions. Your claim that people underachieve solely due to a conscious choice is not merely a gross oversimplification, but flat out wrong. Also, I'm not talking about the situation worldwide, I am talking about the developed country called the United States of America where the gap between educated and uneducated workers has been widening for the last few decades and life outcomes are directly tied income, and college education is a major factor of future income.
I dunno what you define as higher math, but let's talk about Calculus. Calculus does not take natural talent in my opinion. With practice and some critical thinking skills you can work through it. You also need prerequesite knowledge of algebra and other math topics that are incorporated into Calculus. I agree with G Dale, Math at its most basic level start with some postulates and then builds up from those postulates. Logical thinking and practice are the key elements imo.
It bothers me when people set up this dichotomy between "humanities" and math and use it as an excuse to justify ignorance. We'd be a way more informed populace if people had a basic grasp of basic economics and statistics, for example.
Math goes on beyond calculus. There's linear algebra, and vector calculus, and there's levels beyond that.
Are you an expert in the way brains function? If not, one could say your lack of understanding of biology and psychology is ignorance.
This article is written from someone who works in the education field. She mentions that many theorist think that some brains are hard wired more for math, and some are hard wired more for more creative pursuits.
In your mind it seems like everyone should study stats, but the world doesn't work like that and never will. You want people to be what you think of as an ideal person. This line of thought is about wanting to make people into something that you would feel more comfortable with.
And that's BS. People should be themselves, and go after the things that interest them or that they are good at.
I'm not saying everyone has to be a doctor. I'm saying a society where children are limited because of the circumstances they are born into is not a fair society. I'm saying that if there are forces at work we don't understand that are stopping people from reaching their full potential, it's worthwhile to try and identify those forces and think up solutions. Your claim that people underachieve solely due to a conscious choice is not merely a gross oversimplification, but flat out wrong. Also, I'm not talking about the situation worldwide, I am talking about the developed country called the United States of America where the gap between educated and uneducated workers has been widening for the last few decades and life outcomes are directly tied income, and college education is a major factor of future income.
So why not pay uneducated workers more money, then? Why not strengthen the labor movements? If you claim to be so concerned about the masses of people, there are simpler ways to achieve things.
There are plenty of college graduates who struggle to pay off student loans and find jobs, I might add. A college degree does not guarantee prosperity. There are plenty of other factors going in.
In fact, the education bubble may have burst. Since 2012 the number of applicants to universities in general has declined, and that's true for the Ivy League itself. Many entry level jobs pay ****!
This article is written from someone who works in the education field. She mentions that many theorist think that some brains are hard wired more for math, and some are hard wired more for more creative pursuits.
In your mind it seems like everyone should study stats, but the world doesn't work like that and never will. You want people to be what you think of as an ideal person. This line of thought is about wanting to make people into something that you would feel more comfortable with.
And that's BS. People should be themselves, and go after the things that interest them or that they are good at.
Well, thank you for responding with an article that validated what I said and refuted your claim that you have to be talented for math. The article specifically states "The thing that makes math difficult for many students is that it takes patience and persistence."
With regards to the calculus thing, I was setting a baseline because you never explicitly explained what high level math was. I used calculus as a conservative example because I think that is as high as a student will go without a stated interest in pursuing further math studies. Things like linear algebra, vector calculus, real analysis, differential equations are taken by engineers, people who want to study math, or others in decidedly quantitative fields. Anyway, a common opinion amongst undergraduates taking the full calculus load is that calc 2 (methods of integration) is the hardest. Vector calculus just uses the same methods and adds additional variables.
Also, I absolutely think the world would be better off if everyone had a basic grasp of statistics. Obviously, that's really hard to do, but why do you take offense to me expressing that view? We'd be a way more informed populace if more people used tools like basic knowledge of statistics and economics to enhance critical thinking and provide a framework to analyze the world.
So why not pay uneducated workers more money, then? Why not strengthen the labor movements? If you claim to be so concerned about the masses of people, there are simpler ways to achieve things.
There are plenty of college graduates who struggle to pay off student loans and find jobs, I might add. A college degree does not guarantee prosperity. There are plenty of other factors going in.
In fact, the education bubble may have burst. Since 2012 the number of applicants to universities in general has declined, and that's true for the Ivy League itself. Many entry level jobs pay ****!
Honestly, every post you write seems to validate me more and more. Your reply is a shining example of an instance where a little insight on economics and critical thinking would be beneficial.
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