In 2015 where are the Italian neighborhoods in the five boroughs (Columbus: dangerous, horse)
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Northeastern Asians are paler in complexion, but that in no way means they are considered white by the majority of people in the US or in the official census stats of the US census bureau. Shoshanorose is completely right in what she's saying. There is a hierarchy made among many people and societies the world over often based on the level of development of those countries (would add in Taiwanese as de facto often considered high in the East Asian hierarchy), but these are separate though related matters.
Anyhow, rosmarino's post was truthful. White was often used as a catchall in some periods for a desirable population and it was why Italians were considered not white, though there was also a general worry about Catholics within US history. A lot of US societal history has been upon roughing up whomever was the most recent migrant and southern Italians bit that pretty hard when they first immigrated en masse though they certainly weren't the first to come across really aggressive nativist sentiments. The thing is, in the US, the dust settles after a while and we come to the point that America as it is has been a land of immigrants for centuries and that people work to make what's best for themselves and their communities and end up making this country more adaptable and more skillful. In this day and age, very few look askance at Italian-Americans and the vast majority of people in the US see them as fellow Americans as has been the case for peoples before and after their large diaspora.
I don't know if anyone is arguing about the US Census's definition of white. That's a separate matter and of course, east Asians don't fit in that category. (And on the side note, aren't Taiwanese mostly northern Chinese who fled during the Communist era?)
The "hierarchy" is often driven by skin color. Over the course of history and across many regions/cultures, people who have lighter skin have been advantaged compared to people with darker skin. More on topic with this thread, people in Northern Italy have looked down on people in Southern Italy. Sicilians were often not considered "white" in their own country.
I never thought about facial features, but giving it some thought now, it's true that humans do have more defined features as you move away from Africa (where mankind supposedly originated). People became less "black".
Frankly this whole conversation is a little weird. Race is a societal term and many people use it as a way of ascertaining superiority.
I agree with most of your post, but it's worth pointing out that Italians (and any other European group) were accepted more easily because they're white.
A fair amount of South Americans and East Asians are also accepted as being white. While others aren't. It is all a matter of timing.
First of all, I don't think most Northeast Asians have the features you described. They tend to have flatter noses than Europeans and are obviously not white.
I don't even think Northeast Asians are that pale. Don't be fooled by Kpop girls.
Second, just because there are hierarchies in these societies does not mean the more prosperous group is white. Oycrumbler described this pretty well.
East Asians had different migration patterns than Southeast Asians. East Asians traveled from North Africa over the Caucasus Mountains and throught the Black Sea, whereas Southeast Asians (and South Asians) derived from East Africa and traveled by hugging the Indian Ocean coastline. They are genetically and linguistically different. As it relates to our western thinking in a black/white World, one group is different than the other. East Asians are like the white man.
A fair amount of South Americans and East Asians are also accepted as being white. While others aren't. It is all a matter of timing.
A lot of South Americans actually are white, while the only whites in East Asia are expats and tourists from the West.
And the "black/white" dynamic you mention doesn't make sense because these countries are pretty homogenous, and the black/white dynamic can only apply to situations where actual white and black people are both present.
The wealthy in Southeast Asia are disproportionately Chinese, however that certainly does not mean Chinese people are white. Not to mention, there are hundreds of millions of people living in poverty in China.
East Asians had different migration patterns than Southeast Asians. East Asians traveled from North Africa over the Caucasus Mountains and throught the Black Sea, whereas Southeast Asians (and South Asians) derived from East Africa and traveled by hugging the Indian Ocean coastline. They are genetically and linguistically different. As it relates to our western thinking in a black/white World, one group is different than the other. East Asians are like the white man.
East Asians are very genetically distant from whites, while East Asians are closely related to Southeast Asians genetically.
Y'all resurrected an old thread just to argue about something that has nothing to do with original topic?
Italian-American areas of NYC and elsewhere largely died because people moved out and didn't give a ((*** who they sold to; that in a nutshell is end of story.
You only have to look at Little Italy versus China Town in lower Manhattan.
The Chinese own large parts of Chinatown which explains why even though it is slowing changing it still is largely still what it is; Chinese.
OTOH that same group (Chinese) and others stepped in and bought up large parts of Little Italy as the Italians fled to the outer boroughs, New Jersey, Westchester, Connecticut or Long Island.
Going back "home" once a year for the feast is all very well and good I suppose; but it isn't the same thing as having a neighborhood to call one's own.
Japanese, Koreans, and northern Chinese have more angular nostrils and jawlines like Europeans. Filipinos, Malaysians, Thai, and Indonesians have rounded nostrils and jawlines like Africans. Southeast Asians also have darker complexions. They also have those to the north of them all up in their business, like Europeans do to Africans.
A fair amount of South Americans and East Asians are also accepted as being white. While others aren't. It is all a matter of timing.
Plenty of South Americans ARE white, not just "accepted as being white". Many South Americans are descendants of the European colonizers of South America.
I'm 100 percent Sicilian and me and my girlfriend who is also 100 percent Sicilian we would like to move to NYC. We prefer living in an Italian neighborhood because we would like to be around our fellow people and would be a family oriented neighborhood. I've been doing research but I can't find any recent data except from the 2000 census on Italian neighborhoods in NYC. So we could really use some help on fink ding some nice Italian neighborhoods in NYC
In 2015 it was Staten Island. In 2017 it's still Staten Island.
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