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You really don't KNOW any cops, do you? I mean, you aren't friends with any... especially since you consider them uneducated opportunists.
It is hard for you to understand but, I wanted to be a cop. I actually went to a seminary & decided to become a cop. You probably have little sense of service, that may explain why you have difficulty understanding that folks may actually like what they do.
I probably shouldn't get into the particulars of my career, but I feel the need to clarify why some of join the force. I retired as a detective sergeant who was a member of the hostage negotiation team. For several years I investigated hate crimes throughout the city. I could have left the job and went into a career that paid much more but I enjoyed what I was doing. I liked the excitement and I felt that I was helping the good people of the city. They are not all sucky... maybe even you.
I think you have cast a very wide net over 36,000 people and painted them with a very wide brush. I would venture to guess you have had some unpleasant dealings with the department and carry some ill feelings. I am sorry for that, but please do not cast aspersions on what is a noble profession that many officers try very hard to maintain a high level of integrity and professionalism.
Is that a question or an assumption? As a longtime resident of NYC...who was born and raised in the city, I HAVE known, and still know, many police officers. It is hard to live in this city and not. As I stated before, those that ultimately became Police Officers, and those I already knew as Police Officers, were all the same....those that were suited fort he force and not much else. This is not to say that ALL Officers are this way, or that ALL Officers are anything, but in MY experience, it has been this way...and I have made that clear it has been MY experience. My HS was mixed, and those of all races that wanted to be cops either were following in their parents shoes because their parents were equally uneducated/small minded and saw it as an easy way to a nice pension and decent salary for their kids, or because they were BAD students and there wasn't much for them after Bronx Community College.
I have ALWAYS had very positive experiences with the limited interaction I have had with onduty Police Officers (that I did not know). I was taught to respect them, and I did, and still do, as I recognize the job they do is not easy, fun, or alot of times respected or appreciated by the community. I value what they do, and I am always happy to see them walking the beat...b/c I take comfort in knowing there is somewhere there to call should something go wrong.
I do not doubt, as I stated earlier many times, that SOME police officers ARE Noble and enjoy the job, and take great pride in being 3rd, 4th, or more generation Police Officers. I also recognize that there are SOME highly qualified, elite members of the Police Force...but again..this highly educated elite is NOT representative of the Police Force. If you are trying to convince me that the majority of the force LOVES their job, and have passed up a promising multimillion dollar career as a wroldclass attorney, Army General, Brain Surgeon, or Entreprenuer Business Tycoon, then let's just call it a day b/c it's not going to happen. They are typically blue coller men/women, with mediocre to poor inner city educations that are typically following the path of a family member, or an easy way to a secure job, pension, and excellent benefits...and that's ok. This does not make them bad..it makes them human beings who are are doing the job that most would not!
I do not doubt, as I stated earlier many times, that SOME police officers ARE Noble and enjoy the job, and take great pride in being 3rd, 4th, or more generation Police Officers. I also recognize that there are SOME highly qualified, elite members of the Police Force...but again..this highly educated elite is NOT representative of the Police Force. If you are trying to convince me that the majority of the force LOVES their job, and have passed up a promising multimillion dollar career as a wroldclass attorney, Army General, Brain Surgeon, or Entreprenuer Business Tycoon, then let's just call it a day b/c it's not going to happen. They are typically blue coller men/women, with mediocre to poor inner city educations that are typically following the path of a family member, or an easy way to a secure job, pension, and excellent benefits...and that's ok. This does not make them bad..it makes them human beings who are are doing the job that most would not!
geez talk about assumptions here...an easy way to get benefits? there's other branches of the nypd that people can get into without risking their lives such as traffic or school safety and the benefits are still good. i really think that the majority of police officers join because they want to make a difference, seeing thta your life is on the line every day. maybe the cops you met through your experiences had limited education, but you really made a huge generalization there and make cops look like pieces of ****.
I dont make cops look peices of ****..in fact in my post I stated quite clearly and in no uncertain terms that I VALUE and RESPECT the job they do...and many poeple DO NOT. I was taught to RESPECT them...and I do. There job is often unappreciated and ridiculed by the public..which makes it all the harder and less rewarding..nonetheless they persist..and I am glad they do!
That being said..I will not state that they are a highly educated, elite workforce..because that is NOT what the city wants, pays for, or attracts. The force is predominantly the working class Joe Blows of the outerboroughs with mediocre to poor inner city educations....this does in no way make them pieces of **** and nowhere did I make that assertion. But lets be real about who makes up the Police Force and not pretend they are the cream of the crop...unless you are referring to the cream of the crop of Bronx Community College..in which case I MIGHT agree.
Why is this hard to believe or wrong? Please provide me facts to show that what I am asserting based on my experience is wrong. I am aware of the criteria for new recruits...and I am also aware of where the city does its recruiting...so how are my assertions wrong? I would like to believe that the majority of police officers may JOIN partially because they want to make a difference..I have no doubts about that. But ultimately it is a tried and true path to a secure job, nice pension, and excellent benefits ...all of which is rare these days..and virtually non-existent for innercity, public school educated young adults....which is WHO overhwehlmingly make up NYC's Police Force.
So why exactly does any of this make them look like pieces of ****? I don't think so..and I certianly did not paint that picture.
Hmmm, let's see what some of the descriptions you have used to describe police officers. Maybe we can come to the root of why SeventhFloor & I think that you have a poor image of them:
GuyWithaCause has said:
- it was ONLY the bad kids, those that did the poorest in school, or who were otherwise phukups, losers, or deviants in some way...that ALWAYS became cops...and I am confident that fact has not changed.
- the profession does not attract "NY"s Finest"....quite the opposite actually.
- So there is no doubt that these poeple do not have the vision, intelligence or savvy to see past the $28,000 scary number.
- The few "good" cops that the force does attract are quickly crushed and molded into drones just biding their time for either their retirement pensions, or an early retirement due to an "injury" on the job.
- in my experience, it is usually the least equipped, least ambitious, least intelligent, least capable that have joined the force...so considering they have little options anyway..theya re doing just fine.
- What you have in the Police Force is the Columbus HS C+ graduates, who went on to Bronx Community College for an ever more abysmal education, graduated with an AA, and the only route they can take is a union job of any kind, especially the Police Force. THAT is representative of the police force..it is not a judgment, or any sort of knock on them..just a reasonable assessment of who the majority of the force is. (Really? But you go on to say that this just your opinion.... make up your mind)
- Furthermore I do not blame cops for anything. I think for the skills that they have, and what they have to deal with day in and day out..it is certianly not worth it at just about any salary. (in other words... It's not the cop's fault they are dumb...)
- However, for many of these people, it IS a way for them to get a decent salary, excellent benefits, PLENTY of O/T, and a nice pension after 20 years, and healthcare forever. Not a bad deal for those that had a dim future to begin with....
- The fact remains...that the profession DOES NOT attract the elite, but in fact is KNOWN for attracting the blue collar/uneducated IRISH of years past, the poor PRs and African Americans looking to enter the middle class, as well as the Italians looking to solidify their place amongst the city's connected. (that is a pretty biased comment.)
- The cops of today are not the "noble"....maybe some are..but we are speaking of the MAJORITY...and they are most certainly not educated, intelligent, or the visionaries of our society. I am not knocking these brave young and men and women..but bravery and opportunists are NOT the academic achievers, entreprenuers, or mover/shakers of our society. (visit NYPD Angelsand tell me these were not noble actions that cost these men & women their lives, a sacrifice so that others of this may live free)
- but when you source your police force from the BOTTOM you will only get the BOTTOM. They are not seeking a professional, educated, respectful, elite police force...they want a bunch of brutes that can, for the most part, keep these thugs/ghetto hoodlums in line
- They do not recruit in the elite institutions, have no affiliations with elite instiutions of any kind in fact..however they have a HUGE presence in the various abysmal public schools and horrendous community colleges. So what are you talking about noble? (since when do you have to be Einstein to have a sense of nobility in your work?)
- there is NO need to pursue being a cop for any reasonable person. (I guess I'm unreasonable)
- At the end of the day..who really WANTS to be a cop? The ones that are least capable, in my experience, to do much of anything else....of course there are exceptions, but generally..this is spot on...and considering their skills (or lackthereof)..they do quite well...as recruits are STILL joining the force albeit in slightly lower numbers.
- those of all races that wanted to be cops either were following in their parents shoes because their parents were equally uneducated/small minded and saw it as an easy way to a nice pension and decent salary for their kids, or because they were BAD students and there wasn't much for them after Bronx Community College.
- this highly educated elite is NOT representative of the Police Force. If you are trying to convince me that the majority of the force LOVES their job, and have passed up a promising multimillion dollar career as a wroldclass attorney, Army General, Brain Surgeon, or Entreprenuer Business Tycoon, then let's just call it a day b/c it's not going to happen. They are typically blue coller men/women, with mediocre to poor inner city educations that are typically following the path of a family member, or an easy way to a secure job, pension, and excellent benefits...and that's ok.
- I will not state that they are a highly educated, elite workforce..because that is NOT what the city wants, pays for, or attracts. The force is predominantly the working class Joe Blows of the outerboroughs with mediocre to poor inner city educations.
- But lets be real about who makes up the Police Force and not pretend they are the cream of the crop...unless you are referring to the cream of the crop of Bronx Community College
Jeez, you really paint a pretty picture of the people who have been charged with protecting you liberties, property & well being. If I wasn't so simple minded I might actually be insulted.
You should also post where I stated that I RESPECT THEM AND VALUE THEIR SERVICE. I recognize that their job is completely unappreciated by many and the job is oftentimes thankless....and I am happy they are there. Why not post those facts too?
Everything I said about the women and men of the police force ABSOLUTELY has been the case IN MY EXPERIENCE. I am STILL waiting for ANYONE to refute what I said. Stating the facts does not make them pieces of ****, we cannot all be astrophysicists...and the C- innercity public school educated kids need somewhere to work/something to aspire to...and being a NYC Police Officer is a tried and true way to enter the middle class for these people, secure a decent living, a fat pension, and lifelong benefits. So I call a spade a spade....how exactly is this making them out to be pieces of ****?
I was just down in high bridge visiting some friends when I saw 2 cops running up jerome towards 170.They seemed to be coming from the 44. I was like hhhmm I wonder what has happened now.
we get to the 170 stop under the el and there is a guy lying there and a whole bunch of cops around. It seemed to be a hit and run and the cops were running around, checking his eyes, trying to find witnesses etc and there was a real sense of urgency. I was very impressed. And as bad a rep as the nypd gets i don't think they get the credit they deserve. it doesn't mean all the cops are ready to hold your hand and take you for a walk in the botanical gardens but, what i just saw was humans trying to help another human. so 1 up for the cops.
Mind you, I have a guest from out of state this weekend and she saw the robbery last night on the two train (i made a thread about this) . She also saw the incident on jerome so so far, the bronx has been living up to it's name/rep.
And FOPT65..you are spot on. They sold the new recruits out so that the senior guys can get fatter and laugh all the way to the back. They sold themselves out but try to blame everyone else.....thats the Union.
Again, GWaC, this is absolutely false. It is the city that demanded, and is still demanding in this round of negotiations, that NYC cops pay for their own raises.
The city's contract offers to NYC cops over the last 6 yrs were %5 & %5 from 2000-2002----0%, 1%, 3%, from 2002-2005 (ultimately decided by arbitration to be %5 & %5 for '02-'04) and currently 3% & 3.15% for '04-'06.
Had NYC cops not went to arbitration, they wouldn't even be making 60K right now, they would be making less. You seem to want to believe that the city HAS offerred substantial increases to close the 25% pay gap only to be shot down by the unions. BUt the TRUTH is the above, and everyone of those proposal appeared in print in the local papers.
You simply cannot refute what I said with any evidence, b/c none exists. You CANNOT find an offer from the city that raises the pay for a NYC cop above 70K, let alone in the 75K range that would barely put the salary in the ballpark.
This article confirms the 3% & 3.15% currently offerred for 2004-2006. Go to the last paragraph for the numbers. The article is from The Chief newspaper and it is archived at the PBA's website. This is NOT a PBA publication.
Hey I agree BX718..they dont get the credit that they deserve by the public. There is no doubt that theya re human beings doing their jobs...and I for one very much appreciate it!
Regarding your comments SouthQueens, it really doesn't matter because the city isn't going to compete with other counties...they shouldn't have to and aren;'t going to..why should they? You expect investment banking firms in South Jersey (assuming there were any) to compete with NYC's salary for the same position. NOPE. The same applies with police officers...the market for them in NYC is X amount...if you want to work in Nassau county you will get paid Y amount...you want to work in Pennsylvania you will get W amount.
Youa re beating a dead horse..it isn't going to happen because they don't HAVE to pay it. The city is perfectly happy with the C+ innercity public school educated kids from the outerboroughs that has ALWAYS been its police force.
I do not doubt at all that people are telling their friends/kids not to join the force...I would tell my kid the same thing...I would not want him to go down that road because it is not worth it...
Well then who do you expect to perform this job? Who will be the Detectives of tomorrow who investigate murders, rapes and robberies and work with the DA's offices to put these violent criminals in prison, away from the rest of the public? What kind of Detective are you going to put on the stand to testify against these guys and explain the evidence gathered? Cops are not as unintelligent as some of your posts imply. This work requires a lot of thinking and a lot of report writing and testifying in a clear and convincing manner.
I think you just feel like everything will just keep plugging along regardless of the personnel problems created by a long period of low, uncompetitive pay. And that is why you just accept this situation and go along with it.
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