AOC has added to the destruction of NYC (New York, Arlington: appointed, leasing)
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No, you don't understand my point which I was quite clear about. Amazon cannot guarantee that 50k workers will be hired no more than you or I can't guarantee that another COVID variant will impact the city. Bezos made lofty projections in order to obtain all sorts of financial incentives. AOC's position was clear and smart - why pay a company to locate in NYC? If Amazon wants to be here, rent space like everyone else...WHICH THEY'RE DOING! How does Amazon lure more tech companies? They're already here. Google, Microsoft, Facebook...they're all here with or without Amazon. So if Goldman Sachs decides to relocate their HQ to Miami, should we pay them to stay put?
You either pay them to stay put, or budget around 1-2 billion less in revenue.
NYC seems unable to figure out how to cut spending.
It is atrocious at it.
Bezos can't guarantee 50k jobs. As someone else said, Amazon already has properties disbursed throughout Manhattan. So these same people you speak of can still work for Amazon and still make good money. And here's the best part - there's no paying Amazon to be here. AOC made the right call - being in NYC speaks for itself.
No, you don't understand my point which I was quite clear about. Amazon cannot guarantee that 50k workers will be hired no more than you or I can't guarantee that another COVID variant will impact the city. Bezos made lofty projections in order to obtain all sorts of financial incentives. AOC's position was clear and smart - why pay a company to locate in NYC? If Amazon wants to be here, rent space like everyone else...WHICH THEY'RE DOING! How does Amazon lure more tech companies? They're already here. Google, Microsoft, Facebook...they're all here with or without Amazon. So if Goldman Sachs decides to relocate their HQ to Miami, should we pay them to stay put?
The problem here is that people who work minimum wage jobs and can't do High School math, really believe that they understand how the city's economics work.
No idea what I'm talking about, huh? NYC was only in the running because of the incentives (money) that it was giving to Amazon who was on a national roadshow collecting incentives. Stop typing and start reading before you continue embarrassing yourself.
How about you reading your own links? I said there were incentives in the form of tax breaks and that’s what it was. Furthermore, it was relatively small compared to what many other cities/states had offered. That is how sought after these jobs were.
The HQ was expected to generate $10 billion in tax revenue for NYC/NYS over the next 20 years so a tax break of roughly $1.5 billion is like an investment. If you could invest $1.50 in something and get back $10, you do it every time. Even the best performing stocks do not give you that rate of return.
Tell me how AOC will generate $10B for NYC/NYS?
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Originally Posted by Brownpine
Now that Amazon is building their HQ2 in Virginia, why don't you find out how that's going for the Virginians and get back to us.
Yeah, nothing happening in Virginia except lots of development, jobs, economic activity, infrastructure improvement and an overall improvement in the quality of life for the residents there. Meanwhile, the weedy lot in LIC is sitting empty and lifeless. Thanks AOC.
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Originally Posted by Brownpine
Dept of Homeless has a $2B budget, which is being cut this fiscal year, btw. Obviously, the money is not being spend effectively. Homeless shelters are a well-known disaster. That's why people don't go there and would rather sleep in the cold.
Wait, didn’t you claim that the city should be using money for the homeless instead of giving to Amazon? Well, the Amazon deal fell through so clearly NYC did spent the money on the homeless and yet we still have homeless problems.
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Originally Posted by Brownpine
I'm here for the great weather and natural scenery. 70 degrees in Central Park. Can't beat NYC on a Sunday afternoon.
If 70° weather and natural scenery is why you are here, then clearly you are not very good at picking cities to live in.
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Originally Posted by Brownpine
You have no clue what AI and how it impacts the job market at all levels. Plus, Amazon like many tech companies, hire a lot of H1B workers who'll work that $150k job for 1/2 the price. There are no guarantees that many native New Yorkers will be hired.
A human has to do the engineering for AI. A human has to do finance. A human has to do HR. A human has to do advertising and marketing. A human has to do procurement. AI cannot do those things. Again, you are embarrassing yourself with your ignorance and just lack of understanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
Bezos can't guarantee 50k jobs. As someone else said, Amazon already has properties disbursed throughout Manhattan. So these same people you speak of can still work for Amazon and still make good money. And here's the best part - there's no paying Amazon to be here. AOC made the right call - being in NYC speaks for itself.
Bezos may or may not be able to guarantee 50k jobs but that is his problem. If he couldn’t meet those numbers then he doesn’t get the tax breaks. So if for example, he were to generate 49K jobs, he would not get the tax breaks but NYC would still get those 49K jobs. That is a deal heavily in the city’s favor and only fools would argue against it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
No, you don't understand my point which I was quite clear about. Amazon cannot guarantee that 50k workers will be hired no more than you or I can't guarantee that another COVID variant will impact the city. Bezos made lofty projections in order to obtain all sorts of financial incentives. AOC's position was clear and smart - why pay a company to locate in NYC? If Amazon wants to be here, rent space like everyone else...WHICH THEY'RE DOING! How does Amazon lure more tech companies? They're already here. Google, Microsoft, Facebook...they're all here with or without Amazon. So if Goldman Sachs decides to relocate their HQ to Miami, should we pay them to stay put?
Wrong. The deal was performance based. If Amazon did not meet those hiring numbers, they would not get the tax breaks.
Yeah, Amazon did add some jobs in Manhattan (which doesn’t need them as much as Queens) but those pale in comparison with the tens of thousands that would have been at the HQ.
Amazon was going to redevelop that whole waterfront area into a campus with office, residential, retail and educational buildings and public park space. It was going to be a bustling economic generator for the whole of NW Queens. Now it is an empty and lifeless area. Only you and that moron AOC would be against it.
Last edited by antinimby; 03-06-2022 at 05:07 PM..
Let me get this straight so I understand your point - you believe that Amazon was planning to build and open a brand new HQ in LIC, but that they had no intention of bringing any jobs. Essentially the HQ was going to sit empty, while Amazon milked NYC for money and tax advantages. And that one of the largest tech companies in the world, choosing NYC to open a HQ, would have had no benefit to NYC as a tech hub, thus luring more tech companies and more jobs... So LIC and NYC are better off now without Amazon (which has multiplied in size and created even more jobs since the pandemic)
Is this what AOC was selling?
They actually believed that ALL of the workers were going to be these "Evil White people with an education and coming from money" and that absolutely 100% of them were going to be imported from California... Funny enough people coming from these parts of California vote for AOC type of candidates...
They actually believed that ALL of the workers were going to be these "Evil White people with an education and coming from money" and that absolutely 100% of them were going to be imported from California... Funny enough people coming from these parts of California vote for AOC type of candidates...
This is exactly what this was about. It wasn't really about Amazon. It was about the perception that whites and Asians would be getting most of the "good" jobs.
How about you reading your own links? I said there were incentives in the form of tax breaks and that’s what it was. Furthermore, it was relatively small compared to what many other cities/states had offered. That is how sought after these jobs were.
The HQ was expected to generate $10 billion in tax revenue for NYC/NYS over the next 20 years so a tax break of roughly $1.5 billion is like an investment. If you could invest $1.50 in something and get back $10, you do it every time. Even the best performing stocks do not give you that rate of return.
Tell me how AOC will generate $10B for NYC/NYS?
Yeah, nothing happening in Virginia except lots of development, jobs, economic activity, infrastructure improvement and an overall improvement in the quality of life for the residents there. Meanwhile, the weedy lot in LIC is sitting empty and lifeless. Thanks AOC.
Wait, didn’t you claim that the city should be using money for the homeless instead of giving to Amazon? Well, the Amazon deal fell through so clearly NYC did spent the money on the homeless and yet we still have homeless problems.
If 70° weather and natural scenery is why you are here, then clearly you are not very good at picking cities to live in.
A human has to do the engineering for AI. A human has to do finance. A human has to do HR. A human has to do advertising and marketing. A human has to do procurement. AI cannot do those things. Again, you are embarrassing yourself with your ignorance and just lack of understanding.
Bezos may or may not be able to guarantee 50k jobs but that is his problem. If he couldn’t meet those numbers then he doesn’t get the tax breaks. So if for example, he were to generate 49K jobs, he would not get the tax breaks but NYC would still get those 49K jobs. That is a deal heavily in the city’s favor and only fools would argue against it.
Wrong. The deal was performance based. If Amazon did not meet those hiring numbers, they would not get the tax breaks.
Yeah, Amazon did add some jobs in Manhattan (which doesn’t need them as much as Queens) but those pale in comparison with the tens of thousands that would have been at the HQ.
Amazon was going to redevelop that whole waterfront area into a campus with office, residential, retail and educational buildings and public park space. It was going to be a bustling economic generator for the whole of NW Queens. Now it is an empty and lifeless area. Only you and that moron AOC would be against it.
Beautiful day in Central Park. You should get out more instead of picking apart my text with your ignorance. Now that I'm back home...I'll be brief:
Your obviously not a deal-maker because the deal stunk. I compliment you on at least knowing something about Amazon's investment in NYC. But your understanding is still limited. To your investment question, why would I invest $1.50 if I'm getting a return at ZERO cost?
As for Virginia, let's see how long it takes for them to hire the 25,000 people they promised the state. 9/1/2021, CNBC wrote:
Arlington, Virginia, the “HQ2” contest winner that so far has a small fraction of the 25,000 roles Amazon has promised it over a decade, currently has about 2,800 openings. The city of Bellevue where Amazon is growing near its hometown Seattle has another 2,000.
Finally, do you live in LIC? The way I remembered the situation, the people there didn't want Amazon because they didn't want the increased population, increased housing costs, and increased traffic burden. Your profile says your in NJ (the less said there, the better). So why are you so strung out about a place you don't even live in? Do I care what happens in the Garden State? Nope! And yet, you're going to sit in your suburban wherever speak to the issues impacting LIC residents who can barely afford to stay there now? Ask the people of Seattle how they feel about Amazon. The lucky 20k people are so that can work there AND earn a good salary pales to the 200k people who have to contend with unaffordability. You think homelessness would actually improve with HQ2...Seattle would tell you the opposite.
As I said in my initial reply to you - I'm glad you're not representing the 14th. Stay in Jersey.
The problem here is that people who work minimum wage jobs and can't do High School math, really believe that they understand how the city's economics work.
I'm sorry, I definitely don't correspond to that profile you mention above, but I also don't really see why you would concede a $3B tax break to a company like Amazon who doesn't need it. Choice of the office location should be based on the company's objectives to hire specific skill sets anyway.
And they ended up paying $1B to get a whole building in NYC.
I'm sorry, I definitely don't correspond to that profile you mention above, but I also don't really see why you would concede a $3B tax break to a company like Amazon who doesn't need it. Choice of the office location should be based on the company's objectives to hire specific skill sets anyway.
And they ended up paying $1B to get a whole building in NYC.
The politicians in this city REGULARLY flush billions down the toilet. This isn't an opinion. This is a fact.
If you really believe that this was about $3bn (over a number of years) then you're just proving my point.
The politicians who used this issue to further their political power and agenda chose the $3bn argument because the people they were trying to convince were and are uneducated rubes. They got played.
Amazon pulled out quick because they realized that this wasn't about the money and didn't want to get caught up in race politics.
Beautiful day in Central Park. You should get out more instead of picking apart my text with your ignorance. Now that I'm back home...I'll be brief:
Your obviously not a deal-maker because the deal stunk. I compliment you on at least knowing something about Amazon's investment in NYC. But your understanding is still limited. To your investment question, why would I invest $1.50 if I'm getting a return at ZERO cost?
What zero cost investment is going to net NYC/NYS $10B?
Let’s see, NYC/NYS spends $2B EVERY YEAR (using your figure) on the homeless and yet it only gets worse and also gets nothing back in return. While with the Amazon deal, NYC/NYS invests $1.5B ONE TIME and gets back $10B. Only fools like AOC and her defenders can think that deal stinks.
Again, what exactly has AOC done to bring jobs and improvements to her district? Oh yeah, she “speaks her mind.” That’s helped so many folks.
As for Virginia, let's see how long it takes for them to hire the 25,000 people they promised the state. 9/1/2021, CNBC wrote:
Arlington, Virginia, the “HQ2” contest winner that so far has a small fraction of the 25,000 roles Amazon has promised it over a decade, currently has about 2,800 openings. The city of Bellevue where Amazon is growing near its hometown Seattle has another 2,000.
You are embarrassing yourself with erroneous info. The Amazon HQ2 announcement happened in 2017, not “a decade ago”. Also, the Arlington HQ is still under construction. Meanwhile, jobs and economic activity there is already way ahead of that empty LIC plot and when the HQ2 does open, nothing built on that LIC (a developer wants to build luxury condos there) will come anywhere close to generating the economic revenue that the Arlington HQ2 will.
Amazon is a behemoth and growing. I would not be surprised that they would eventually surpass that 25K and need to expand again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownpine
Finally, do you live in LIC? The way I remembered the situation, the people there didn't want Amazon because they didn't want the increased population, increased housing costs, and increased traffic burden. Your profile says your in NJ (the less said there, the better). So why are you so strung out about a place you don't even live in? Do I care what happens in the Garden State? Nope! And yet, you're going to sit in your suburban wherever speak to the issues impacting LIC residents who can barely afford to stay there now? Ask the people of Seattle how they feel about Amazon. The lucky 20k people are so that can work there AND earn a good salary pales to the 200k people who have to contend with unaffordability. You think homelessness would actually improve with HQ2...Seattle would tell you the opposite.
As I said in my initial reply to you - I'm glad you're not representing the 14th. Stay in Jersey.
Wrong Again. There was a lot of support for Amazon from the lower income sections of LIC especially the Queensbridge Houses and the business owners in the area understandably as it would have brought in a lot of workers, jobs and economic opportunities to the area. The only people that were against it were your usually NIMBY white woke gentrifier types that only moved into LIC recently and already had jobs so they saw no benefit for themselves.
I'm sorry, I definitely don't correspond to that profile you mention above, but I also don't really see why you would concede a $3B tax break to a company like Amazon who doesn't need it. Choice of the office location should be based on the company's objectives to hire specific skill sets anyway.
And they ended up paying $1B to get a whole building in NYC.
First of all, it wasn’t $3B. It was roughly $1.5B in tax breaks, which would have been quickly offset by the tax revenue NYC would get back from the jobs and economic activity generated by the HQ.
Second, NYC was in a stiff competition with many other cities and states so it had to provide a little incentive, which was actually not even very generous compared with other places that promised much more. As for your statement that a company not needing it. That has nothing to do with business. The guiding principle for all business is to reduce cost while maximizing profits. That’s how successful companies become successful.
Furthermore, Amazon if they had stayed in LIC, would have had long term investments in the area and throughout NYC, that would have far outweigh the initial costs.
NYC wasn’t losing anything. Now without the HQ, there is 0 revenue for NYC to even tax on.
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