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The upper middle class are merely affluent, not rich, and there is a huge difference between the two descriptors. And, I dismissed the average statistic as skewed data, not the median which is correct in the $60k region; and while many people hover around the median on the lower side of it, that's not akin to a living wage at all in Manhattan, hence that's why moderate income housing exists.
And, I've got some news for you, $150k does not go very far in Manhattan at all, that's middle class territory, not upper middle class/ average rich. Higher wage earners do not necessarily equal higher amounts of wealth and buying power, precisely because of the increased costs to maintain a standard of living in expensive areas, such as Manhattan. Furthermore, I don't think you understand the concept of the median income and its buying power, especially in light of the way you dismissed the Washington, DC region, that has the top three counties in terms of median income, and you did say that New York County had the highest, which is not correct. Many people in DC earn way over the upper middle class/ average rich threashold that you have described for Manhattan, but that money goes much further in that region, so locically they are an average rich population, but since they don't conspicuously consume and overextend, they are to be dismissed? New York has more luxury shops as it holds a unique position as a world leader for such goods, that's why more botiques are located in the city as a presence must be maintained, not exclusively for Manhattanites.
I don't know why you need to insult people, either, with the comment about an entry level three series, but since you have such a skewed view of public housing and public assistance, I guess it is a way to elevate oneself. My first BMW was a three series, an M3, but I was sixteen and that's the vehicle with which I had to live at the time, but it's just a car, not a measure of the worth of a person. I seriously could care less about what someone drives, wears, or where they shop, since I tend to have more of an egalitarian view on life, and know people of many incomes. But, my view arises when one has had to face critical, life-altering issues, that nothing so trivial as mere money could ever begin to change. There are people who have far less than I do, materially, for whom life is a joyous celebration; people who are happy to be alive ech day to celebrate milestones, large and small, with their friends and families, who are genuine, decent, hard working individuals who have incalculable reserves that do not begin to compare to money. If someone like that lives in public housing or moderate income housing and mixes with me in Manhattan, I am happy to have had the mere experience of being in their presence, to glimpse the absolute joy in their eyes, than to surround myself with the latest brigade of semi-affluent label chasers of whom I have grown tired. I agree that public housing is flawed, but demolishing it merely because one does not like the income level of those who live there, and who have lived and worked there long before such newcomeres have dropped themselves into Manhattan, is the height of arrogance.
One of the best posts I've ever read on city-data. Great job.
No...what i meant was NYCHA rents are based on income and family size.
Yes I know... it is.. was is the point??? a family of 3 can earn 55,000 dollars and live in manhattan almost for free... while family of 3 earning 130,000 cant. That is not fair....
u know how much "market rate" is right? the middle class cannot afford "market rate" rent in manhattan.
I know they cant afford it.. but lets say they can afford 2,000 or 2,500... then rent it for that price..
suggestions?
Increase rent in the PJ, move in middle income that can pay it.
do you know where it is?
Well I know is in IS, and I know that Richmond Terrace is a road(north in SI) maybe in St. George??
well cmon i'm sure everybody has somewhere where they want to live but cannot afford. have you heard of people trying to get into the projects in manhattan just to have cheap rent? i havent.
I have heard of people in other PJ trying to get in manhattan PJs..
who are all these people that are trying to live in manhattan? foreigners, rich people, and college kids, thats it.
Just about everybody that I know wants to live in Manhattan....
I have friends living in Brooklyn that wants to live in Manhattan...
Same in NJ.
the average middle class NYer is not breaking their balls to try and live in manhattan.
If nobody wants to live in Manhattan then it will be cheap... Just by the FACT that is expensive means that the demand is high.
and the ones that are thinking about living there can afford it.
Ok, I am sure that no middle class family wants to live in Manhattan if they could find a cheap place...
Yes I know... it is.. was is the point??? a family of 3 can earn 55,000 dollars and live in manhattan almost for free... while family of 3 earning 130,000 cant. That is not fair....
well its called subsidized housing for a reason....i guess its also not fair that the rent stabilized tenant doesnt pay what the market rate tenant does in manhattan either? if thats your attitude then rent stabilization should not exist in manhattan either.
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I know they cant afford it.. but lets say they can afford 2,000 or 2,500... then rent it for that price..
what do you consider middle class? for a family of 3 to rent a place for $2K a month, lets just say they have to make 40x the rent... 2000x40=80,000. they're barely squeezing by on that in manhattan...a family needs a combined income of 6 figures to live in manhattan. 6 figures is not middle class to me.
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Well I know is in IS, and I know that Richmond Terrace is a road(north in SI) maybe in St. George??
google it....its on richmond terrace and jersey street.
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I have heard of people in other PJ trying to get in manhattan PJs..
for what reasons? u sure?
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Just about everybody that I know wants to live in Manhattan....
I have friends living in Brooklyn that wants to live in Manhattan...
Same in NJ.
so tell your friends to let their feet hit the pavement and start looking for rent-stabilized apartments in the city.
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If nobody wants to live in Manhattan then it will be cheap... Just by the FACT that is expensive means that the demand is high.
who's demanding it? foreigners, yuppies, college entry-level job kids. not the family of 4 living in maspeth.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
This idea of moving the projects and all people who live in them to the boroughs is reminiscent of the nazis moving the Jews into ghettos and away from the general population.
well its called subsidized housing for a reason....i guess its also not fair that the rent stabilized tenant doesnt pay what the market rate tenant does in manhattan either?
I know the name,, and I know that is subsidized,, the middle class in NYC are not getting any help.. Rent stabilized is another story..
if thats your attitude then rent stabilization should not exist in manhattan either.
No,, I am ok with rent stabilization, especially for the elderly,, but not for others...
what do you consider middle class?
It depends where they live..
for a family of 3 to rent a place for $2K a month, lets just say they have to make 40x the rent... 2000x40=80,000. they're barely squeezing by on that in manhattan.
Ok,, you cant find a few,, handfull of 2,000 2 bedroom in Manhattan if any...
..a family needs a combined income of 6 figures to live in manhattan. 6 figures is not middle class to me.
In NYC,, is another story,, no 6 figures in Florida is not middle class in NYC, for a single person is not middle class. but for a family is getting there.
google it....its on richmond terrace and jersey street.
OK,, and?? what do you want me to know about this area?? I have pass by the place(diving).
for what reasons? u sure?
Closer to work for one... and yes. I am sure..
so tell your friends to let their feet hit the pavement and start looking for rent-stabilized apartments in the city.
Hey,, one questoin,, how do you do that... I would love to find one... if it is a big secret please send me a PM....
who's demanding it? foreigners, yuppies, college entry-level job kids. not the family of 4 living in maspeth.
Not all of Manhattan are full of yuppies,, a lot of old rich people to.. especially in UES, UWS area....
This idea of moving the projects and all people who live in them to the boroughs is reminiscent of the nazis moving the Jews into ghettos and away from the general population.
wow,,,, I dont have that idea... I dont want to move the projects but change them... we need PJ...
and manhattan is not the general population, I think that would be Brooklyn right....
I know the name,, and I know that is subsidized,, the middle class in NYC are not getting any help.. Rent stabilized is another story..
yes we are....hpd has lotteries for middle class.
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No,, I am ok with rent stabilization, especially for the elderly,, but not for others...
others like who? rangel? lol.
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It depends where they live..
no buddy....if you're rich you're rich, and if you're poor you're poor. all goes by income. why do think there's tax brackets? the govt's not gonna say, "oh well this guy lives on the upper east side, but he only makes $100,000, so he's middle class there, so we'll tax him less...." where did u get that notion from?
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Ok,, you cant find a few,, handfull of 2,000 2 bedroom in Manhattan if any...
yes you can....maybe not in certain areas....but on the island of manhattan its possible to find a 2 bedroom for 2000 if you look hard enough.
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In NYC,, is another story,, no 6 figures in Florida is not middle class in NYC, for a single person is not middle class. but for a family is getting there.
i already covered this above. goes strictly by income.
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OK,, and?? what do you want me to know about this area?? I have pass by the place(diving).
my original point was thats prime property in staten island. its close to the ferry with views of manhattan, so u think its fair that public housing's there? especially since the area was a slum to begin with? its not anybody's fault that people never saw the value in NYC waterfront property until now. too bad for the developers.
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Hey,, one questoin,, how do you do that... I would love to find one... if it is a big secret please send me a PM....
obviously it must be a big secret, but its actually pretty easy. on Tenant Net - Tenants and Renters Rights - New York City, you can print out a list of every rent stabilized building for whatever zipcode you put in. next, you go to the building, ask the super if there are any apartments available. if there is, fill out the app. the LL can only raise the apartment rent 15%. you can go to the DHCR office and request the rent roll that tells you how much the person before you was paying. if the rent is too high, you say ok, sign the lease, take the LL to court, and get a rent abatement.
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Not all of Manhattan are full of yuppies,, a lot of old rich people to.. especially in UES, UWS area....
And hey,, let me know about the rent.....
look up
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
The upper middle class are merely affluent, not rich, and there is a huge difference between the two descriptors. And, I dismissed the average statistic as skewed data, not the median which is correct in the $60k region; and while many people hover around the median on the lower side of it, that's not akin to a living wage at all in Manhattan, hence that's why moderate income housing exists.
And, I've got some news for you, $150k does not go very far in Manhattan at all, that's middle class territory, not upper middle class/ average rich. Higher wage earners do not necessarily equal higher amounts of wealth and buying power, precisely because of the increased costs to maintain a standard of living in expensive areas, such as Manhattan. Furthermore, I don't think you understand the concept of the median income and its buying power, especially in light of the way you dismissed the Washington, DC region, that has the top three counties in terms of median income, and you did say that New York County had the highest, which is not correct. Many people in DC earn way over the upper middle class/ average rich threashold that you have described for Manhattan, but that money goes much further in that region, so locically they are an average rich population, but since they don't conspicuously consume and overextend, they are to be dismissed? New York has more luxury shops as it holds a unique position as a world leader for such goods, that's why more botiques are located in the city as a presence must be maintained, not exclusively for Manhattanites.
I don't know why you need to insult people, either, with the comment about an entry level three series, but since you have such a skewed view of public housing and public assistance, I guess it is a way to elevate oneself. My first BMW was a three series, an M3, but I was sixteen and that's the vehicle with which I had to live at the time, but it's just a car, not a measure of the worth of a person. I seriously could care less about what someone drives, wears, or where they shop, since I tend to have more of an egalitarian view on life, and know people of many incomes. But, my view arises when one has had to face critical, life-altering issues, that nothing so trivial as mere money could ever begin to change. There are people who have far less than I do, materially, for whom life is a joyous celebration; people who are happy to be alive ech day to celebrate milestones, large and small, with their friends and families, who are genuine, decent, hard working individuals who have incalculable reserves that do not begin to compare to money. If someone like that lives in public housing or moderate income housing and mixes with me in Manhattan, I am happy to have had the mere experience of being in their presence, to glimpse the absolute joy in their eyes, than to surround myself with the latest brigade of semi-affluent label chasers of whom I have grown tired. I agree that public housing is flawed, but demolishing it merely because one does not like the income level of those who live there, and who have lived and worked there long before such newcomeres have dropped themselves into Manhattan, is the height of arrogance.
I refuse to chip away at my Mac Book Air to type up a novel so I'm going to keep this short.
Notice that New York County is the only city/urban county on that list of highest per capita income and it still manages to come in at second place behind the Bay Area's exclusive and suburban Marin County. Counties like Marin County and and Fairfax don't have public large groups of housing babies dragging the average down, thus keeping it exclusive and wealthy as Manhattan should be.
City Number of Families earning $200,000 + Annually (Excluding suburbs)
1. New York City - 156,621
2. Los Angeles - 60,811 9. Washington, DC 20,518
City Number of Families earning $200,000 + Annually (Suburbs included)
1. New York + Suburbs- 473,318
2. Los Angeles +Suburbs - 239,970
3. Washington DC + Suburbs 202,546
-Census
Most millionaire households
1. New York - 700,195
2. Los Angeles - 250,081
5.Washington DC - 71,744 - Kiplinger
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