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Ok,,
I am going to give an example...
Is this fair???
(And please, I know that this example doesnt represent everybody in the PJ) A family living on a PJ in manhattan, mother works and makes 25k, husband work under the table and gets pay 30k cash. Of course they only report 25k, they live in manhattan.. Yes they are hard working people.. Is it fair... they receive free food coupons, medicaid, pay almost nothing in rent, gas, electricity. If they have small kids, they have WIC,, more free money... And you see them with expensive clothes, Iphones, etc... And they are not paying any taxes...
VS
A a hardworking man earning 60k along,,, He cant live in manhattan, is having trouble with payments, including health insurance, pays high rent, and he pays tax...
Now what is FAIR???
Yes..but lets not talk about the exceptions and these circumstances...there are similar unfair circumstances in everything.
Yes,, but this exception,, is what 1% of the people 10% of the people or higher???
Because I see them in the hospital everyday,,, with their celphones, and expensive clothes...
Well you are making alot of assumptions about what you see. How do you know the people you are seeing in the hospital:
1-live in the projects
2-are cheating the system
Maybe they have cell phones and bling that was given to them? Ever heard of x-mas/b-day gifts/hand-me-downs, etc? Your views are based on false assumptions and perceptions, not facts or evidence. There is no doubt SOME people abuse the system..but that does not mean it does not serve a good purpose for the vast majority of people. People abuse social security with duplicate ss# for double payments, falisfied records....should we ban ss? How about all the people that abuse the disability system..should we cancel that also? Of course not..they serve a valid purpose..fraud is everywhere and will happen..but that does not change the value these programs/services have for the vast majority of people and our society.
Well you are making alot of assumptions about what you see. How do you know the people you are seeing in the hospital:
1-live in the projects
2-are cheating the system
Maybe they have cell phones and bling that was given to them? Ever heard of x-mas/b-day gifts/hand-me-downs, etc? Your views are based on false assumptions and perceptions, not facts or evidence. There is no doubt SOME people abuse the system..but that does not mean it does not serve a good purpose for the vast majority of people. People abuse social security with duplicate ss# for double payments, falisfied records....should we ban ss? How about all the people that abuse the disability system..should we cancel that also? Of course not..they serve a valid purpose..fraud is everywhere and will happen..but that does not change the value these programs/services have for the vast majority of people and our society.
Easy,,
First their files say where they live,
Second durring interview and asking question about their work..
Oh and just in case,, durring all interview you ask employment.
I was talking with one that has a 2007 Jaguar, and lives in Isaacs houses.
As I stated...I do not doubt that it is being abused..but so is everyother program/system..should we abolish healthcare insurance b/c Doctors are abusing the system? Abolish social security because people abuse it? Banish the Red Cross/Salvation Army etc because of some fraudulent behavior? Of course not...so if you choose to view one as unfair because of abuse..then all are equally culpable...so at least be consistent.
Maybe they have cell phones and bling that was given to them? Ever heard of x-mas/b-day gifts/hand-me-downs, etc? Your views are based on false assumptions and perceptions, not facts or evidence. There is no doubt SOME people abuse the system..but that does not mean it does not serve a good purpose for the vast majority of people. People abuse social security with duplicate ss# for double payments, falisfied records....should we ban ss? How about all the people that abuse the disability system..should we cancel that also? Of course not..they serve a valid purpose..fraud is everywhere and will happen..but that does not change the value these programs/services have for the vast majority of people and our society.
No, you are right,, just because people are abusing doesnt mean we have to terminte the services.. but YES i believe that people in PJ in manhattan have plenty of advantage over everybody else...
Including other people on the PJ outside manhattan...
Ok, now another question for you...
let say that the 30k is legally reported,, and they make 55K and with one child... they still live in the PJ,, since is 55,300 the limit....
and get free food,, free wic,, free insurance,, almost free everyting...
and the 60K person lives worse compared to this famaly...
No, you are right,, just because people are abusing doesnt mean we have to terminte the services.. but YES i believe that people in PJ in manhattan have plenty of advantage over everybody else...
Including other people on the PJ outside manhattan...
Ok, now another question for you...
let say that the 30k is legally reported,, and they make 55K and with one child... they still live in the PJ,, since is 55,300 the limit....
and get free food,, free wic,, free insurance,, almost free everyting...
and the 60K person lives worse compared to this famaly...
Of course what you are referring to is an abuse of the system but it is something that has far more implications then someone living in the PJs. If someone is making 30k under the table, then they and the company they work for should be reported to the IRS. Evidently, the abuse is stemming from the Employer side and the Employee due to the fact that Employers have to report what they are paying to an Employee regardless of whether they are taking out for taxes or not.
Aside from that comparing someone living in the PJs to someone who is living in a market rate apartment is tricky. For every comparison of someone with a family making 60K and struggling with a market rate apartment, you have the flip side of someone making 60K and finding an apartment that is more attuned to what they can afford to live comfortably with. Based on the idea that someone making 60K can spend 30% of their income for an apartment, they should not be renting for over 1500 per month. For them to spend 25% of their income, an apartment should not cost over 1250 per month. It is possible to find a 2 bedroom apartment for those amounts. Maybe not where they want to live at so they will ending paying more to move into a neighborhood that they prefer. For the PJs you do not have that choice. You can pick the borough and when an opening occurs in the borough Housing will let you know. You don't have the freedom of moving around if you want to since it is based on whether or not Housing will allow you to move to another apartment and that usually only occurs in extreme circumstances. You cannot hold onto your apartment for years and years, since technically your apartment is based on your family size and housing can always request you to move to a smaller unit if necessary. The PJs, are fairly restrictive in what you can do. Most people that like the freedom to live where they want to will not be satisfied living with the rules and regulations of the PJs. Just trying to say that living in the PJs has its benefits but it has its downfalls also and due to the nature of the PJs it is very difficult to compare someone living in it to someone living in a market rate apartment. (Hope this made some kind of sense)
As far as Manhattan goes, I don't know what to say. It appears that a lot of people view Manhattan as some kind of special thing but as a life long New Yorker, it really is just another borough to me. I find it exciting and I enjoy working and hanging out in the city but to live there is another thing entirely. When my friend lived around 151st Street and Broadway I was there a lot and I did not like it. I could hang around there but to live was a little too much for me and I find that with most places in Manhattan from the Lower East Side up to Washington Heights. To much activity and not enough regular amenities for me to live comfortably without being stressed. But that is just me as some people don't mind the trade off.
Of course what you are referring to is an abuse of the system but it is something that has far more implications then someone living in the PJs. If someone is making 30k under the table, then they and the company they work for should be reported to the IRS.
Even if it was legal,, and they did report it, making 55K a year.. is still unfair.
Evidently, the abuse is stemming from the Employer side and the Employee due to the fact that Employers have to report what they are paying to an Employee regardless of whether they are taking out for taxes or not.
You are talking about the first example.. but responding to the second example...
Aside from that comparing someone living in the PJs to someone who is living in a market rate apartment is tricky. For every comparison of someone with a family making 60K and struggling with a market rate apartment, you have the flip side of someone making 60K and finding an apartment that is more attuned to what they can afford to live comfortably with. Based on the idea that someone making 60K can spend 30% of their income for an apartment, they should not be renting for over 1500 per month. For them to spend 25% of their income, an apartment should not cost over 1250 per month. It is possible to find a 2 bedroom apartment for those amounts.
IN Manhattan??? 1,250 would be a studio... or less a room..
Maybe not where they want to live at so they will ending paying more to move into a neighborhood that they prefer. For the PJs you do not have that choice. You can pick the borough and when an opening occurs in the borough Housing will let you know. You don't have the freedom of moving around if you want to since it is based on whether or not Housing will allow you to move to another apartment and that usually only occurs in extreme circumstances. You cannot hold onto your apartment for years and years, since technically your apartment is based on your family size and housing can always request you to move to a smaller unit if necessary. The PJs, are fairly restrictive in what you can do. Most people that like the freedom to live where they want to will not be satisfied living with the rules and regulations of the PJs. Just trying to say that living in the PJs has its benefits but it has its downfalls also and due to the nature of the PJs it is very difficult to compare someone living in it to someone living in a market rate apartment. (Hope this made some kind of sense)
Yes and this is true for all PJ, except the ones in Manhattan..
As far as Manhattan goes, I don't know what to say. It appears that a lot of people view Manhattan as some kind of special thing but as a life long New Yorker, it really is just another borough to me. I find it exciting and I enjoy working and hanging out in the city but to live there is another thing entirely.
Yes but this is your single preference,, and not the majority of the people... The demand for manhattan apartment are high.. so the rent is higher,, making living in manhattan a special thing...
When my friend lived around 151st Street and Broadway I was there a lot and I did not like it. I could hang around there but to live was a little too much for me and I find that with most places in Manhattan from the Lower East Side up to Washington Heights. To much activity and not enough regular amenities for me to live comfortably without being stressed. But that is just me as some people don't mind the trade off.
I dont have problems PJ...
I just think having PJ where 80% of the middle class can rent or buy,, is unfair...
Ok,,
I am going to give an example...
Is this fair???
(And please, I know that this example doesnt represent everybody in the PJ) A family living on a PJ in manhattan, mother works and makes 25k, husband work under the table and gets pay 30k cash. Of course they only report 25k, they live in manhattan.. Yes they are hard working people.. Is it fair... they receive free food coupons, medicaid, pay almost nothing in rent, gas, electricity. If they have small kids, they have WIC,, more free money... And you see them with expensive clothes, Iphones, etc... And they are not paying any taxes...
VS
A a hardworking man earning 60k along,,, He cant live in manhattan, is having trouble with payments, including health insurance, pays high rent, and he pays tax...
Now what is FAIR???
ok well obviously from your example, the people in the pjs have the advantage...so whats your point?
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