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Well if you live in Ithaca and are going to Ithaca Commons, if you're living nearby it's likely you'd walk. And some would take the bus. Most other spots upstate or to normal shopping areas? Yes, they'd drive but there are a few town center districts that get pedestrians. But I agree the vast majority drives. A lot of new construction in upstate NY is in large lots, adding to the spread-out ness, so driving distances might rather high for some.
The Ithaca Commons has NO GROCERY STORE. The closest two are Wegman's and Tops. Most of Ithaca and most of Tompkins County (Ithaca is in Tompkins) is not within walking distance of a grocery store. As you just admitted, the vast majority drive. Oh, and just two groups of people live within walking distance of the commons. Mainly students, and there's a poor welfare section. Generally regular working residents don't live near the commons. (the commons is also close to all of Tompkins County's welfare agencies).
What do you think it means, then? Drive alone excludes by taxi or carpool, which get grouped under other together with bicycling (check the link for the other total)
What do you think it means, then? Drive alone excludes by taxi or carpool, which get grouped under other together with bicycling (check the link for the other total)
Bottom line is, people in NY drive plenty. No one is going to convince me that the reason for NY's lower miles per capita is not due to NYC. I live down here and see the multitude of busses going in to NYC from as far away as here, and as you get closer to NY, there's busses clogging up everything.
Also, the more I research this online, the more I see that NYS is the very definition of a sprawled out state. I misunderstood what sprawl meant- I thought it meant population growing outward instead of being compact. When actually the more sinister type of sprawl is when the there's no growth, and land is still gobbled up. Or, even worse in NY case, negative growth plus a major loss of land.
Rochester had 296k in 1970 and has 210k in 2010. Forget estimates or whatever, those are census numbers. Yet the urbanized area is much larger:
Crazy to see Rochester as being more sprawled out than Dallas, Texas. Point being, southern areas aren't really as sprawled out because their gaining population, both in the city and the suburbs.
Bottom line is, people in NY drive plenty. No one is going to convince me that the reason for NY's lower miles per capita is not due to NYC. I live down here and see the multitude of busses going in to NYC from as far away as here, and as you get closer to NY, there's busses clogging up everything.
Also, the more I research this online, the more I see that NYS is the very definition of a sprawled out state. I misunderstood what sprawl meant- I thought it meant population growing outward instead of being compact. When actually the more sinister type of sprawl is when the there's no growth, and land is still gobbled up. Or, even worse in NY case, negative growth plus a major loss of land.
Rochester had 296k in 1970 and has 210k in 2010. Forget estimates or whatever, those are census numbers. Yet the urbanized area is much larger:
Crazy to see Rochester as being more sprawled out than Dallas, Texas. Point being, southern areas aren't really as sprawled out because their gaining population, both in the city and the suburbs.
Yet, when you look at NY areas outside of NYC, they have much shorter commute times. So, the built environment may still be relatively more compact, but in relation to population, it may appear to be more sprawled. This is also keeping multiple employment centers in mind, if I'm not mistaken.
Keep in mind that the center cities up here are pretty much fixed. So, if you build out up here, it isn't necessarily the same as these other metros, where the city limits may also sprawl out. So, built environment regardless of population is also key to look at.
Yet, when you look at NY areas outside of NYC, they have much shorter commute times. So, the built environment may still be relatively more compact, but in relation to population, it may appear to be more sprawled. This is also keeping multiple employment centers in mind, if I'm not mistaken.
Keep in mind that the center cities up here are pretty much fixed. So, if you build out up here, it isn't necessarily the same as these other metros, where the city limits may also sprawl out. So, built environment regardless of population is also key to look at.
A major part of that short commute time in Upstate NY is that these cities were built to handle 100k more people than they currently have. Rochester's high in 1950 was 120k more people than now. Similar percentage of loss for Buffalo and Syracuse as well.
Hard to compare as southern metros are building currently to meet demand, and Upstate metros are overbuilt for the current population.
Or it seems that way and many move there to retire. That seems to be the difference between the two states.
P.S.- That is the point about infrastructure/built environment.
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