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everybody IS different, which is why i suggest people move where its right for them. CA was not right for us, not just for the climate, but also the materialstic lifestyl and life views, as well as a ton of other reasons..so rather than complain about it for the rest of our lives we moved somewhere that we knew would make us happy. I suggest the same for anybody else...
further proof that people are different is that my wife has severe asthma as well...and she does better here than she ever did in CA. the dry heat killed her lungs more than the humid summers here.
and humid or not 115+ is 115+ it doesnt matter that crap is HOT. and theres no helping your home temp w/ just fans and no helping your body temp regardless of how much water you drink in a house thats 90-95. so i dont understand how the heat and a/c thing are a wash. in MOST areas of southern CA, you NEED your a/c.
And I don't know how good it is for anybodys asthma, with smoke and ash floating around, with the whole state on fire EVERY SINGLE YEAR. you can almost set your clock to it. no thanks to the dry kindling state where fires rage every year.
and the air quality is great in most areas once you get out of the city. I've worked all over SoCal, and i'm happy to not have to witness the wall of smog anymore. so i dont know how your asthma is better because sure you got rid of the humidity, but you trade it in for smog, and just crappy air quality in general, in CA.
and humid or not 115+ is 115+ it doesnt matter that crap is HOT. and theres no helping your home temp w/ just fans and no helping your body temp regardless of how much water you drink in a house thats 90-95. so i dont understand how the heat and a/c thing are a wash. in MOST areas of southern CA, you NEED your a/c.
Ditto for Phoenix, AZ. Endlessly hot weather for 5+ months with no break really bites. It's the lack of a break that's the problem. At least where it snows, rains, etc you can look forward to a break in the weather, even if only for a day. It just does not happen in extreme desert climates. We're getting our first rain today since AUGUST! We're getting back to the northeast ASAP, hopefully this spring.
To the point of the thread, please separate NYC from the rest of the state. The problem is that much of upstate NY (the "real" upstate - not Westchester county) already looks like Gary, IN or Flint, MI. Utica is a prime example. Check out Binghamton. Upstate can't really come back without a break from the taxes. I understand businesses have left for many reasons, but with these taxes in place, what incentive would they possibly have to move there? The area was a hotbed of industry until the 1970's, and when it de-industrialized, the high taxes remained and no new business wants to move into that when there's cheaper options (like Phoenix AZ, for example).
High taxes-->no new businesses-->evacuating workforce-->higher taxes for those who remain. It's an endless cycle.
How does downstate NY keep upstate going? I don't understand that argument. I'm not trying to be facetious - I really don't get it and I'd like to learn about it if there is something to that argument.
Last edited by AZParents; 11-26-2008 at 07:27 PM..
everybody IS different, which is why i suggest people move where its right for them. CA was not right for us, not just for the climate, but also the materialstic lifestyl and life views, as well as a ton of other reasons..so rather than complain about it for the rest of our lives we moved somewhere that we knew would make us happy. I suggest the same for anybody else...
further proof that people are different is that my wife has severe asthma as well...and she does better here than she ever did in CA. the dry heat killed her lungs more than the humid summers here.
and humid or not 115+ is 115+ it doesnt matter that crap is HOT. and theres no helping your home temp w/ just fans and no helping your body temp regardless of how much water you drink in a house thats 90-95. so i dont understand how the heat and a/c thing are a wash. in MOST areas of southern CA, you NEED your a/c.
And I don't know how good it is for anybodys asthma, with smoke and ash floating around, with the whole state on fire EVERY SINGLE YEAR. you can almost set your clock to it. no thanks to the dry kindling state where fires rage every year.
and the air quality is great in most areas once you get out of the city. I've worked all over SoCal, and i'm happy to not have to witness the wall of smog anymore. so i dont know how your asthma is better because sure you got rid of the humidity, but you trade it in for smog, and just crappy air quality in general, in CA.
Materialistic lifestyle is going to be a problem in any megalopolis. Thankfully, you can tune that out if you're so inclined. I've had to here for the last 25 years. Southern California is no more materialistic than NYC. If you don't want to deal with being pressured to buy the latest iphone, you can move to the countryside in either state.
I'm so sorry that the dry heat hurt your wife's lungs. Humid heat does that for me, so in a backward way I know the feeling. It does sound like the east is better for her. I felt it strange myself, but having been in 110+ heat in Las Vegas and death valley, I never once struggled to breathe. With my body, it all comes down to whether or not it's cold/humid/allergin-rich air. But where does it really reach the 110s with regularity? Only in the desert, which would not be my choice region anyway.
Regarding air quallity, it's well known that California suffers where there are large cities such as LA and parts of the Bay Area, as well as locales featuring lots of industrial equipment and farming like in the southern SJV. There are many, many regions of California which have wonderful air quality, such as Inyo County, the Monterey area, and much of the northern half of the state. As you said, the air quality is great once you get out of the city. It applies to both NY and CA. For what it's worth, I have a much easier time breathing in southern California (even during fires- there was one around Santa Barbara when I was there in August) than in metro NYC, if only for the humidity/allergy factor. The actual air quality is atrocious in both regions, though metro-LA is improving and metro-NYC is getting worse.
If you're going to live in a big city, STAY AWAY from the immediate areas of large ports. They also usually have oil refineries and other emission-heavy industry surrounding them. The soot from Port Newark and its surrounding industry would fall on our cars like snow in Staten Island. It's no surprise that I had developed childhood asthma within 6 months of moving there from the midwest. And in Southern California, you could not pay me to live within 5 miles of the Port of LA/Long Beach. It would be the same thing. In fact, if you deleted those ports (impractical, yes), I'd bet the air quality for both regions would skyrocket.
Okay, now re: the NYC secession. I'd be in favor of it. They are clearly two distinct social and political regions. I've had friends upstate dating back to the days when my family lived in the city. It's like night and day. It pains me to read of how depressed the economy has been up there. But as others have said, now the city and most of the country is going to wake up from their dream and feel that pain as well. I think upstate, being cleaner, more small business friendly "in theory" and more agricultural, could have the brighter future as big business continues to collapse under its own weight.
Upstate optimists can remain that way.....but many young people just dont like living in that dreary climate after college. It isnt just the economy that is driving young people away...
There are great schools up there...but a lot of the kids going to Cornell, Colgate, Rochester, RIT, St. Lawrence, Clarkson, Hamilton etc. who came from somewhere else....looked around and really couldnt see themselves living there. Do they want to battle SAD as a byproduct of living up there? New England is the SAME way...many young people are packing up and moving to much friendly and warmer climates.
Upstate NY is a hard sell....NYC or no NYC.
I have a son in finance in the city and his company has been moving a share of their work to Buffalo (starting right after 9/11) for both costs and security reasons.....
I find the west much more materialistic versus the east. In Phoenix, large houses(and I mean large) have been the norm until all of the forclosure problems started happening. Most cars are under 3 years old--in general. Furniture is larger than I've ever seen--some of the DR sets I wouldn't be able to fit through my door. Although it's not Cali, similiar trends here.
Weather is a funny thing. When I lived in NY state, I didn't much mind most winters--just not the bitter cold. And a few rainy days in a row were enough. I find the weather out here so much more difficult. The 5 months of near and over 100/year is relentless, never barely a break--a bit during the monsoon, but not much else. Hard to explain to anyone just how relentless the heat is here. It's like literally being in an oven for 5 months and looking for the off switch.
I remember talk about NYC being cut apart from the rest of the state in the 80's--just talk.
The west and the south are more materialistic in nature than the northeast and midwest...but it is mostly from transplants who have moved down south or outwest from the northeast looking for "more". They see the shiny new houses that cost less, which means they have more money for shiny new cars and shiny new everything else too. They laugh at those of us who CHOOSE to stay up here and enjoy our lives with our older housing stock (though there is still new housing available, just not as much). And guess what happened? All those shiny new houses and shiny new everything else got paid for with shiny plastic and caused one of the worst economic downturns this country has ever seen! Where is it felt the hardest? In the huge-growth sunbelt states where everything was "shiny and new" since the late 80's.
I can't understand this new trend in the U.S.
Heaven forbid, it might be cloudy sometimes, or you may even get SNOW!
Cloudy can sometimes be a good thing. After spending 30 yrs in the "Sunshine State" and having suffered through skin cancer, I can attest that a sunny climate is not all it's cracked up to be. Better to have diverse climate and really appreciate the sunny days when they occur. It may even save your skin. Looking forward to convincing my better half to relocate to upstate after retirement in a couple of years.
In a word....absolutely. Same accent too! There is something somewhat more "northeast" about Rochester and Buffalo than Cleveland or Milwaukee, but overall; Upstate; atleast from Rochester and points west...is more similar to the uppermidwest/ great lakes (especially since it borders 2 of the great lakes) than they are to New Jersey, Long Island, Philly, etc.
Upstate NY has fresh water (including most of NYC's supply, so I hope you have made arrangements for that), the nation's 2nd leading agricultural industry, wind farms galore, and access to international shipping via the St Lawrence Seaway.
If upstate were cut free from NYC and the labor union regulations from downstate, watch out, upstate would fly again. And would become one of the nation's most politically important swing states.
so, secede away... and take your arrogance with you...
What the Greater New York City Area provides upstate with is more than what you provide us with. As if we need the meaningless St. Lawrence River when we have the Hudson River and Atlantic Ocean right here.
Agriculture, wine? We have Long Island for some of it and we could always trade for the rest.
NYC would prosper even more without upstate and we'd be the densest state in the country.
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