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According to HUD, 3 people household median is $86,300. Since HUD determines affordable housing and not the census I'll go with HUD. Besides, in an earlier post you said people lie on the census, so they must underreport their incone also, right?
Per capita income??? Really? That just strengthens my argument. Per capita income of $30,361 includes every person in the population whether you are 5 years old or 90 years old. Per capita takes all income and divides by TOTAL population. So let's subtract the kids and retirees and guess what, you'll get to $67,000 median for single workers, lol.
Sell 4 homes at $700,000 x .025 = $70,000 income. Your cost of doing business is tax deductible. Sigh.
You're the only person on the planet that would use HUD figures over Census or IRS data when determining real earned income. I noted per capita income to give you perspective of how far off you are from reality. People can skirt tax laws in any state - not just Hawaii. I'm not going to discredit every govt-issued statistic I see by X amount because of tax cheats.
Bottom line, 50% of all working people on Oahu do NOT make at least $67,000. The real number is in the low 50's. And since statistics alone won't give you an accurate number, living here on this tiny rock among ALL classes, poor, wealthy and everyone in between, over one's entire life does add at least a tiny bit of credibility over those that have not.
Most realtors get about 1.25-2% max. No realtor is going to walk away with 2.5% - the broker takes a huge cut, sometimes up to 50%. Furthermore, cost of business has to be subtracted directly (dollar for dollar) from your earnings (I.E. INCOME). If a realtor made $70,000 in commissions and had $10,000 in expenses (which is not uncommon), their income is equal to $60,000.
So in reality... 4 homes sold at $690K x 1.5% commission = $41,400 - $8,000 expenses = $33,400. A far cry from $70K, hmm? The same can be said for your yard guy and Uber driver. lol
You're the only person on the planet that would use HUD figures over Census or IRS data when determining real earned income. I noted per capita income to give you perspective of how far off you are from reality. People can skirt tax laws in any state - not just Hawaii.
Bottom line, 50% of all working people on Oahu do NOT make at least $67,000. The real number is in the low 50's. And since statistics alone won't give you an accurate number, living here on this tiny rock among ALL classes, poor, wealthy and everyone in between, over one's entire life does add at least a tiny bit of credibility over those that have not.
Most realtors get about 1.25-2% max. No realtor is going to walk away with 2.5% - the broker takes a huge cut, sometimes up to 50%. Furthermore, cost of business has to be subtracted directly (dollar for dollar) from your earnings (I.E. INCOME). If a realtor made $70,000 in commissions and had $10,000 in expenses (which is not uncommon), their income is equal to $60,000.
So in reality... 4 homes sold at $690K x 1.5% commission = $41,400 - $8,000 expenses = $33,400. A far cry from $70K, hmm? The same can be said for your yard guy and Uber driver. lol
I'm still waiting to see how per capita income is valid? Counting newborns, retirees, etc in determining what WORKING adults makes applies how?
So, you don't like HUD data nor Census data and just want to go on gut feel, got it - thanks for clarifying.
So for independent contractors we subtract expenses from income to determine income even though it is tax deductible. I see. So the $70,000/year on a W2 doesn't really make $70,000 due to income taxes, etc? Is that the logic of your $50,000 income? Interesting way to calculate it.
Is it some sort of government conspiracy to inflate income levels for Hawaii?
Last edited by whtviper1; 03-16-2015 at 03:41 PM..
I'm still waiting to see how per capita income is valid? Counting newborns, retirees, etc in determining what WORKING adults makes applies how?
So, you don't like HUD data nor Census data and just want to go on gut feel, got it - thanks for clarifying.
So for independent contractors we subtract expenses from income to determine income even though it is tax deductible. I see. So the $70,000/year on a W2 doesn't really make $70,000 due to income taxes, etc? Is that the logic of your $50,000 income? Interesting way to calculate it.
Good grief. Per capita income is VERY important in determining global income data for a specific area.
You do realize that 61% of Oahu's population has a job, right? That means more than 6 out of 10 people residing on this island are employable and have a job. Revealing your ridiculously erroneous math is simple. 1 / .61 = 1.639. Then take the median per capita income of $30,361 and multiply by 1.639 = $49,772. Once you factor in unemployment, underemployment, etc, the number comes in exactly where I said it should be (low 50K range). Not quite just a "gut feeling", is it?
Again, my point was to reveal that your numbers are grossly out of line with reality. HUD-extrapolated data determines affordability of housing for ONE PERSON, TWO PEOPLE, THREE PEOPLE etc etc. They use the actual real income data from the Census/IRS and extrapolate figures based on variables that determine affordability for HOUSING. Their minimum/maximum figures do not translate into actual income figures that are reported by taxpayers. Got it?
And regarding your realtor-income / hole-digging argument, you may want to research what AGI is (you can google it). It will make your arguments a little more sensible. Are you conceding 2.5% was way off?
You do realize that 61% of Oahu's population has a job, right? That means more than 6 out of 10 people residing on this island are employable and have a job.
Wow, so far off again.
40% of the population is 19 or younger or 65 of older. You can't really believe the other 60% are full-time employees - seriously? Nobody retired early. Nobody in school? No stay at home moms, no mentally ill, disabled, etc???
Last edited by whtviper1; 03-16-2015 at 04:28 PM..
40% of the population is 19 or younger or 65 of older. You can't really believe the other 60% are full-time employees - seriously? Nobody retired early. Nobody in school? No stay at home moms, no mentally ill, disabled, etc???
Can you explain how the median household income (with 3 people residing in the home) is $72,764 yet the median INDIVIDUAL SINGLE PERSON income is $67,000?
Can you explain how the median household income (with 3 people residing in the home) is $72,764 yet the median INDIVIDUAL SINGLE PERSON income is $67,000?
whtviper1 and pj37, how does your long, drawn-out argument with each other have any relevancy to the OP's question? I believe that some people have tried to give some helpful answers based on their personal experience. How could anyone possibly find those responses since you two have basically highjacked this thread?
whtviper1 and pj37, how does your long, drawn-out argument with each other have any relevancy to the OP's question? I believe that some people have tried to give some helpful answers based on their personal experience. How could anyone possibly find those responses since you two have basically highjacked this thread?
I appreciate your feelings on this topic auntie. I have to ask you if constantly complaining about this is solving anything? Further i find it even more interesting that the issue is hijacking threads when the issue really appears to be one posters obsessive need to be right, have the last word and his deathgrip on the forum about what is reality(truth) or how things should be on the forum and or lack of respect. I commend pj37 for standing his ground and realise that if more had found there voice earlier and done the same. Maybe we wouldn't have the issues we have today? https://www.city-data.com/forum/38821727-post15.html
whtviper1 and pj37, how does your long, drawn-out argument with each other have any relevancy to the OP's question? I believe that some people have tried to give some helpful answers based on their personal experience. How could anyone possibly find those responses since you two have basically highjacked this thread?
I disagree, we are on topic. OP asked how people get by financially and our discussion/rant/argument/whatever is about median incomes of local people. Despite our arguments/disagreements, I do learn from them and there is always a slight chance someone else learns something as well.
Besides, there isn't exactly a whole lot of action here. Loosen up!
I agree. Completely on topic. We just don't agree on the numbers. I think the average lical does quite well on Oahu. He doesn't.
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