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Not only do they use the word "fact" in the url, the page is littered with the word "fact", should they instead say "best guess"..
I think the census data is the best data available for this. I have cited it over and over again. Why do you think that I don't believe it? What baffled me is that you also said it was fact, then continued to disagree with it when it didn't tell you what I wanted to hear. I think you misunderstood what I was getting at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1
Actually, I think it is higher than that. Fully 1/3 of households on Oahu are people who live alone - average rent for a 1 bedroom is over $1,700/month - they are getting the money from somewhere. Rents are going up, way up - nearly 20% the past 6 months alone - if people didn't have the rent to support those rent increases, you'd have a massive housing collapse.
When police, fire, electricians, bartenders, plumbers, lawn cutters, all the corporate offices downtown all make at least $70K - you start getting hard pressed to think of people who make less than that such as maids, fast food restaurants, and retail stores. 95% of my corporate office make well over $70K, and over 50 off the top of my head make over $300K - considered one of the largest employers of the state.
That's great, I'm happy for you and everyone at your corporate office. The census data for median income for full-time year round workers (which we both agree is fact) says that you are all well above the median. That means that far more people make less than you vs make more than you. Consider yourselves fortunate.
From which you can choose to look at a monthly spreadsheet that tracks all Employee Workers average Hours & Earnings (Titled "All Employee Worker H&E Data) ... it shows the data for every month since 2007. It shows the data for All of the State. And it also breaks out Urban Honolulu. Additional tabs show the same data but broken out into different service sectors. It is just for private Employers, not public Employers.
They get the numbers by simply taking up to date Employer Payroll numbers compared to number of employees on payrol in that period.
For February 2015, the average Weekly Earnings for the State of Hawaii was $840 / week. For Urban Honolulu it was $890 / Week.
This data is very up to date and taken directly from all private employers within the State as they report to the State Government.
It works out to an average annual earnings of $46,280 per employee in Urban Honolulu.
Of course, some would be above average. Some households would have more than one person working. But that average is about what I would have expected. And the data is straight from payroll records reported every week to the State of Hawaii by every private, non-farm Employer in the State.
You just need to walk around some of the neighborhoods and you can tell there are a lot of families just scraping by ... but in reality, you'd find that same situation in almost any city in the world, just to varying degrees.
For February 2015, the average Weekly Earnings for the State of Hawaii was $840 / week. For Urban Honolulu it was $890 / Week.
This data is very up to date and taken directly from all private employers within the State as they report to the State Government.
It works out to an average annual earnings of $46,280 per employee in Urban Honolulu.
Of course, some would be above average.
You just need to walk around some of the neighborhoods and you can tell there are a lot of families just scraping by ... but in reality, you'd find that same situation in almost any city in the world, just to varying degrees.
I don't necessarily disagree with that data - my issue is that it includes, "All Workers" - that skews the numbers down. I've stated that for full time workers - the median is likely more in the $70K range, and no - I don't believe taking the number of hours up by the hourly wage makes up the difference, because it is further skewed. You take out the fringe workers working part time - I think my number would be closer.
There are far more nice neighborhoods than the scraping by areas (like Waianae or Waimanalo) on Oahu. Average rent for a 1 bedroom is over $1,750 and up over 20% in the past 6 months - if people couldn't afford the rent - the rent would go down.
Lastly, what the numbers don't provide is tipped workers and independent contractors - a lot of tipped workers on Oahu that you won't see in payroll data.
Last edited by whtviper1; 03-25-2015 at 04:23 PM..
Doesnt most service industry or other non professional employers(biggest industry on the islands) keep alot of employees PT to avoid paying health care costs in Hawaii?
Doesnt most service industry or other non professional employers(biggest industry on the islands) keep alot of employees PT to avoid paying health care costs in Hawaii?
No.
Recent research suggests that the ultimate increase in the incidence of part-time work when the ACA provisions are fully implemented is likely to be small, on the order of a 1 to 2 percentage point increase or less,†according to economists at the San Francisco Federal Reserve. They note that this conclusion “is consistent with the example of Hawaii, where part-time work increased only slightly in the two decades following enforcement of the state’s employer health-care mandate.â€
Doesnt most service industry or other non professional employers(biggest industry on the islands) keep alot of employees PT to avoid paying health care costs in Hawaii?
That hasn't been an issue in Hawaii since the 70's. Anyone working over 20hrs per week has to have health care provided for them by the employer. Having worked in the service industry in Waikiki for 4 years during grad school I was well aware of this. Housekeepers, valets, security guards, etc... without a lot of seniority count on this when occupancy rates go down during certain parts of the year and their hours get cut. The HPHCA is a large reason why Hawaii has one of the lowest uninsured rates in the nation.
Lastly, what the numbers don't provide is tipped workers and independent contractors - a lot of tipped workers on Oahu that you won't see in payroll data.
Now that is actually a reasonable concern with the data... not enough to jump median wages 20 grand across the board, but there is a lot of unreported tip money floating around the restaurant/service industry. When I was a valet I used to take in about $50 per 8hr shift (on average) in cash tips. It made my minimum wage salary a lot more tolerable... more like making $12 an hour or so. I know bartenders and servers than made a lot more than that. Of course I reported it all , but I am sure many do not. LOL
It wouldn't collapse the rental market if people ignored the guidelines and adjusted their habits to make ends meet (the point of this thread). Some get roommates, some rent rooms in houses or live in small Ohana units in peoples back yards or over their garages, some cut back on going out, some live with their parents until they are 30 to save for a down payment, some get housing assistance, some pick up a second job or do work under the table, some don't have a car, some put off retirement, and some choose not to save for emergencies or retirement.
According to the ACS report that I linked about 10 times already (so I won't again) 50.8% of Hawaii renters and 45% of mortgage owners are spending 30% or more of their monthly income on selected monthly housings costs. That is the problem. According to these affordability calculators half of the renter population in Hawaii is stretched too thin and nearly half of the homeowners as well. The desire to live in "paradise" is an incentive for people to to cut back in other areas in order to make ends meet. You see this in lots of locales, particularly desirable ones like Hawaii and California where nice weather and natural beauty make people more willing to cut back in other areas in order to live there.
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Originally Posted by Harvard Rental Housing Affordability Report
High-cost California and Hawaii rank among the top three states in terms of cost-burdened share.
I get why you react harshly to some people that exaggerate how rough it is there, MOST people don't have 2 jobs, MOST people don't live with extended family, and MOST people aren't living in poverty as was implied by other posters earlier in the thread. But at the same time, you have to acknowledge that it is one of the harder places, if not the hardest, for people to make ends meet in the country based on wages and cost of living. Sure, there are perks like the weather, the ocean, the scenery, the culture, the food, etc... that make it worth it for people. But just by the numbers, money is tight compared to most other locales. The data overwhelmingly supports that conclusion.
The only thing i disagree with what you and whtviper1 are saying is, it appears that the people today living in Hawaii are richer then prior generations. According to stats in the state of Hawaii only 54% of the state are those who are local born and raised(since last count in 2010 and lowest percentage in history) Since 1990 we have seen a 20% drop in Hawaii, Kauai and Maui county in the Local populations, Overall since 1990 the state has seen a 10% decrease in local population. This by far is one of the bottom states for local population. But the question is? Who is replacing the local population? Should the rosey picture of how well Hawaiis economic wellbeing even count if 46% of the population is bringing wealth from outside of Hawaii to Hawaii? I suspect that if you take the 46% of outside wealth and not count it you would get a true picture of Hawaii economic wellbeing? The truth would be we are a poor state, which is fine.
. This by far is one of the bottom states for local population. But the question is? Who is replacing the local population? Should the rosey picture of how well Hawaiis economic wellbeing even count if 46% of the population is bringing wealth from outside of Hawaii to Hawaii? I suspect that if you take the 46% of outside wealth and not count it you would get a true picture of Hawaii economic wellbeing? The truth would be we are a poor state, which is fine.
By far???? I believe Hawaii ranks about 35th of resident population born in the state, ahead of places like California.
But, to answer the question - the people moving into the state, by far, are foreign born - specifically Filipinos (Chinese are second). And I highly doubt all these Filipinos are wealthy. Approximately 20% of the population of Hawaii is foreign born - a fairly staggering number when one thinks about it - and of the foreign born population in Hawaii, about 45% are Filipino.
About 8% of the entire state of Hawaii residents are foreign born Filipinos.
Furthermore, a staggering 36% of the population is "immigrant stock" - immigrant stock is immigrants and the children they have after they arrive.
More than 30% of foreign born residents arrived between 1990-2000. Again, I really doubt all these foreign born new residents are all that wealthy.
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, but I am sure many do not. LOL
