Anyone move to the Youngstown/Warren/Boardman metro???? (Austintown, Niles: insurance, brokers)

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Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

Maybe the power of blogging is over rated. None the less, i do enjoy reading the blogs and they are a good place for me to find stories i may not have heard on the news. Besides, i do like to hear some positives on Youngstown and the greater Youngstown area. It's much better that hearing the constant negatives i usually hear. I admit i'm a pretty positive person and i do see the Mahoning Valley through "rose colored" glasses at times. I don't think there is anything wrong with loving your hometown, county, region, etc.

reading and being informed is one thing. writing and taking credit for "change" in the valley is another. i do not lump you with the bloggers since you seem to be on a high horse about posting to a message board. while we disagree on the state of affairs, i don't hold anything against you personally. you are not actively creating what i feel is an illusion as much as you are looking at the same thing in a different way.

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

Obviously, the greater MV has it's problems, especially Youngstown and Warren. I'm not blind. I'm not denying that things are bad. Shoot, i myself have been downsized living here. It's not like i haven't experienced the job losses. I've lived in the valley my entire life. Do I know what it's like to live in Youngstown???? No. Do I support the positive things that are going on there??? Of course. Someone has to have some hope around here.

there are so few positives going on. there are not as many negatives as there were, but the ones that remain are still dire.

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

I appreciate anyone from the past or present that is working to improve the valley. I didn't even come close to saying they don't exist. Lots of people have had great ideas over the years; many had some not so great ideas too.

ah, but what i was writing is more that just because one can link to something does not mean that anything is changing on the ground.

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

I think there are a good number of people from this area (i wasn't just talking about Youngstown when i started this thread, but the entire valley) that were born and bread here that have some optimism, not many, but some. I'm one of those people and i have a few friends that feel the same. I also have a lot of friends that say they would never move back here and that this place is a dump. Different strokes for different folks i suppose.

do any of these people have any capital to invest in the area? probably not, since there is not much money to around unless you are a debartolo or cafaro bloodline.
with more people thinking the area is a dump, there is only going to be more brain drain or people having to move elsewhere. it would be difficult finding a way to stay in youngstown if one wants to due to fundamental lack of jobs. i know anecdotes of people who do pull it off, but there are also large numbers (relatively) of those who have to leave.

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

Actually, i don't live in Cortland anymore, i grew up there and it's a wonderful little town. I have previously lived in Niles and now Warren as an adult. I never said that anything in Trumbull County has the same dysfunction as y-town. Warren and to a lesser extent, Niles have a lot of problems. There are some parts of Warren i would avoid, just like many part of Youngstown. Both Y-town and Warren have gangs, drugs, prostitution, stripped down abandoned houses, poor leadership (more so in Warren's case i believe) and lots of slum lords.

alright, in that case you are a homer. since this is your home area, it makes sense for you to care as you so choose to do.
that is a tough call between who has had worse leadership. i felt the effects of youngstown's bad leadership more than warren, so the nerve is rawer.

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

I'm not placing all my eggs in one basket, i just think that the incubator is a bright light for the valley and it's something worth mentioning. I mean, they do have one of the fastest growing software companies in the U.S.

which leads to the question of what other baskets are there? exactly.

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

I'm not sure how old you are, how long you've lived here (i thought you said you came here for business, not that you lived here, is that right?), etc. All i know is that i'm going to be 30 years old. I don't remember the mills, i don't remember the "good old days", I've seen pictures and i know my history. I love learning things about our area and the great history that has taken place here. I'm especially interested in the history of Warren, the Packard family, the Western Reserve and so on. I love visiting both Warren and Youngstown's downtowns, i love Mill Creek Park, The Arms Museum, The Butler, The Museum of Labor and Industry, etc. Sorry if i'm I'm one of those people that likes to cheer for the underdog (i mean i'm a Browns fan for gods sake). I'm not wearing blinders, i understand the challenges we face here.

phar-mor is within most peoples' lifespans after the close of the mills. so is mob influence.
the good old days do sound pretty nice the way old-timers tell it. i could see having the optimism in the 40's when the downtown was being built up like it was. i would further go on to say that the post-war period was the greatest time for america. globalization, corruption, petty crime, and luck really did a number on youngstown after the war boom faded, though.
the browns used to not be underdogs. pre-merger, the browns were a dynasty in a smaller league and the nfl while the steelers were consistent losers.

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

I'm not sorry for having some hometown pride and i never will be. I will defend my home, Northeast Ohio, and the rust belt as long as i live. If people don't agree they are free to have their own opinions; I have mine and i'm sticking to them.

nor am i asking you to change. i'm doing the same thing, talking about my hometown, from a completely different direction. my hometown has only kept most of the people that i know down, and until things "really, truly, honestly, for a fact" start to change i can not, in good faith, say that the mahoning valley is a good area to find a job or live in.

[JR_C]

I'm going to try to keep this short because these last few posts we've shared are getting way too long.

Originally Posted by 000000

...just like every other midwest city whose heyday is in the past. well, mill creek park is a bit bigger than most parks.

How many cities of Youngstown's size have museums like the Butler? (there are plenty of other great museums in the area, but I was referring to the Butler as world class)

i don't know how old you are, but i do not sense that you are young.

Thanks, I guess. I been getting that a ot lately. BTW, I'm 31, so maybe you meant early 20's? For what it's worth, the biggest names in Youngstown blogging are also around my age.

even if you got more people from out of the area coming in, you have to give them more than a couple months of things to do.

I'm sorry to say that this site has just become out of date and needs updated. But, for the time period it does cover, you can see there is quite a lot to do. Youngstown City Event Calendar

and are a native of the area.

I'm a native of NE Ohio, but not Youngstown or the Mahoning Valley. But, the creator of the Shout Youngstown blog is a native. (I'm sure there is a link in this thread somewhere.)

plus, having to brag about going to a farmer's market and buying something is less about the local community and more about the ego of the author.

Who was bragging about buying something at the downtown farmer's market? Again, I see the local blogs as mostly a news source for positive developments. The blogs help inform those who might be interested, and who might not have known about them otherwise, that such developments are happening. When these developments are in their infancy, this helps them grow.

i't's happening again! small, petty politiking over small potatoes hurting a local group with good intentions once there is some degree of success behind the project. pure youngstown.

The issues the Garden District group is facing have nothing to do with the city.

talk to, and work with, people outside of their clique in person.

Well, since Phil Kidd now works for the Mahoning Valley Organizing Collaborative, he will get to do just that--talk to and work with people from all around the city.

while i understand your point that negativity produces bad mojo; i do not see how positive attitudes alone change anything either.

My problem with the negative attitude around here is that it's disproportionate to the real negatives the area actually has. So many people around here are quick to talk about how they think Youngstown is thw worst place in the U.S., or the "armpit" of America, when it's clearly not. (at least to me) That's why I like to take the time to try to offer a different perspective whenever the opportunity presents itself.

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Originally Posted by JR_C

How many cities of Youngstown's size have museums like the Butler? (there are plenty of other great museums in the area, but I was referring to the Butler as world class)

i'll give you national, but world is too much. the butler, as an institution, is a good spot of youngstown. i would hate to present it as the best reason for someone to move here, though.
although, as an institution it has an unhealthy obsession with winslow homer's snap the whip. while it is a homer, isn't it strange that the painting rarely comes up in books about the artist?

Originally Posted by JR_C

Thanks, I guess. I been getting that a ot lately. BTW, I'm 31, so maybe you meant early 20's? For what it's worth, the biggest names in Youngstown blogging are also around my age.

the not needing recreation quote is what i based my age assesment on. i can still remember when i was completely bored out of my mind in youngstown and would take my entertainment dollars out of the area. the ones that stayed pretty much ended up at the chevy centre or nyabinghi (closed).

Originally Posted by JR_C

I'm sorry to say that this site has just become out of date and needs updated. But, for the time period it does cover, you can see there is quite a lot to do. Youngstown City Event Calendar

i am familiar with that calendar. what strikes me about it is how small town all of the events are. if i were trying to hold it up as all of the great things to do, i would also have to concede that you can do any of those things anywhere else in the country.
plus, there is like one special yoga class or just one community band in town. youngstown is too small to support variety in the small things that it does offer.
I'm a native of NE Ohio, but not Youngstown or the Mahoning Valley. But, the creator of the Shout Youngstown blog is a native. (I'm sure there is a link in this thread somewhere.)

Originally Posted by JR_C

Who was bragging about buying something at the downtown farmer's market? Again, I see the local blogs as mostly a news source for positive developments. The blogs help inform those who might be interested, and who might not have known about them otherwise, that such developments are happening. When these developments are in their infancy, this helps them grow.

when there was a farmer's market, the whole blogoshpere lit up all at the same time to promote it. then many of the bloggers mentioned how they went to the farmer's market. this is what i was basing that off of.
it is not hard to guess what ends up becoming part of the youngstown blogoshpere echo chamber. echo chambers are part and parcel of the blogging experience, likely due to the human condition. nonetheless, an outside reader would only have to laugh that the people of a small city in youngstown, ohio are finally getting it together at a farmer's market.
if the developments are in their infancy, the smug tone of community uplift has grown disproportionate to the amount of work done by the youngstown blogosphere outside of a couple of the authors.

Originally Posted by JR_C

The issues the Garden District group is facing have nothing to do with the city.

yet, this a good illustration of the character of some characters in town. usually the ones who couldn't leave.

Originally Posted by JR_C

Well, since Phil Kidd now works for the Mahoning Valley Organizing Collaborative, he will get to do just that--talk to and work with people from all around the city.

i hope he has success in that by working for everyone. if he doesn't, he'll just be yet another person who was in it for themselves. though missouri is the show me state, people in youngstown need to see results on the ground instead of on the web.

Originally Posted by JR_C

My problem with the negative attitude around here is that it's disproportionate to the real negatives the area actually has. So many people around here are quick to talk about how they think Youngstown is thw worst place in the U.S., or the "armpit" of America, when it's clearly not. (at least to me) That's why I like to take the time to try to offer a different perspective whenever the opportunity presents itself.

after living in that area for so long, i feel that things have not turned around yet enough to fairly hold a positive attitude. the negatives are decades old, and not really being dealt with head-on. no one around has the capital to do so. i can only wonder if the american economy will be strong enough to be ready for youngstown if it ever does turn the corner. though youngstown is not rock-bottom anymore, that has more to do with city government than a tiny group of bloggers and artists.
the city's recent history is one of dashed hopes and lack of opportunity. that environment fosters the negative attitudes.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by 000000

i'll give you national, but world is too much.

OK, I can agree with that. I've only taken a couple art history classes in college, so I'm no expert. While studying in Europe, I visited some of the best museums in the world, but I was more interested in architecture.

the not needing recreation quote is what i based my age assesment on. i can still remember when i was completely bored out of my mind in youngstown

Well, I'm probably an unusual case. But I haven't been bored in over 13 years--since I started college. After my first week, in the fall of '95, I longed for times when I didn't have something to do.

i am familiar with that calendar. what strikes me about it is how small town all of the events are. if i were trying to hold it up as all of the great things to do, i would also have to concede that you can do any of those things anywhere else in the country.

So, what do you suggest?

I've heard a lot of people say the Mahoning Valley (and Ohio, and the Midwest, etc) is boring, but I've never heard anyone explain why.

yet, this a good illustration of the character of some characters in town. usually the ones who couldn't leave.

To me, it looks more like "old Youngstown" vs. "new Youngstown." "Old Youngstown" wants to sit around and complain about their problems. From what I've read, this is all that has happened for decades. "New Youngstown" wants to do something about their problems.

though youngstown is not rock-bottom anymore, that has more to do with city government than a tiny group of bloggers and artists.

Who said the "tiny group of bloggers and artists" were the reason the city isn't rock-bottom anymore? I don't think I have, and I don't think they have either.

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Originally Posted by JR_C

So, what do you suggest?

either capital investment, or that those do not want to be there move out. sadly, there is not going to be a new y's investments anytime soon.
i am much happier having left. the visits back are bearable since i know that these visits are temporary, and that things are almost exactly the same as they were.
lordstown losing a shift is only going to hurt the area.

Originally Posted by JR_C

I've heard a lot of people say the Mahoning Valley (and Ohio, and the Midwest, etc) is boring, but I've never heard anyone explain why.

there are only so many times one can visit the same museums, the park, lament idora park, etc.
i think that midwestern values become more enjoyable once people grow up a little bit.
until then, the slower pace is inherently boring. there is no need to crave safety when there is not much danger to be had. t

Originally Posted by JR_C

To me, it looks more like "old Youngstown" vs. "new Youngstown." "Old Youngstown" wants to sit around and complain about their problems. From what I've read, this is all that has happened for decades. "New Youngstown" wants to do something about their problems.

i am among old youngstown. although it is hard to not be if one is a native.
i disagree with the assessment that all old youngstown did was complain. if anything, there were previous attempts at new youngstown throughout the time. while there will always complaint, people also did try. they were just extremely unsuccessful due to local government, the mob, etc.

Originally Posted by JR_C

Who said the "tiny group of bloggers and artists" were the reason the city isn't rock-bottom anymore? I don't think I have, and I don't think they have either.

no attempted activist would ever use those words to describe what they do. instead, the blogs endlessly promote the same news and congratulate each other. while this is essentially what all niche blogospheres end up doing, the youngstown blogosphere seem to feel like they are "making a difference".
maybe they feel that way, but what has changed in the city that they can even lay credit to having been part of? if there were to be a youngstown industrial complex, they have appointed themselves as the leaders of the complex with no industry.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by 000000

either capital investment, or that those do not want to be there move out. sadly, there is not going to be a new y's investments anytime soon.

I was asking what kind of events you'd suggest that weren't "small town" or common to any other city?

i am among old youngstown. although it is hard to not be if one is a native.

Most of my neighbors who have joined the group are what I would consider "new Youngstown" and are natives. They have decided they would rather help make their neighborhood better than leave. (I will concede that some may think they have no other choice but to stay in today's housing market.)

i disagree with the assessment that all old youngstown did was complain. if anything, there were previous attempts at new youngstown throughout the time. while there will always complaint, people also did try. they were just extremely unsuccessful due to local government, the mob, etc.

You're absolutely right. And that's why I usually try to stay away from generalizations. I think the author of this blog: Youngstown Moxie II is one of the people you're describing.

the youngstown blogosphere seem to feel like they are "making a difference".

While I happen to think they are helping to improve the morale of some in the city, (which I think is making a difference) what are you basing your statement on?

When I moved into the city back in late spring of 2002, I wasn't pro-Youngstown. I only cared about the 2 blocks around my house. I didn't really care about the rest of the city. I assumed that everyone else disliked the city, and I found some undiscovered enclave. Eventually, I did come to realize that this wasn't true, and I wasn't living in the only nice neighborhood in Youngstown. And, in 2006 I started to seek out others who felt the same way I did. That's when I found some of the blogs, and websites like Vindy.com. Reading the blogs made me realize that there was more to this city than just my back yard. They showed me a side of the city I didn't know existed. I'm pretty sure there are many other stories like mine in this city.

(Hey Cort, I think this last paragraph might actually be on topic!)

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Originally Posted by JR_C

I was asking what kind of events you'd suggest that weren't "small town" or common to any other city?

well, if i had any ideas or capital i would've tried them out... while it is true that the centre formerly known as chevy
even in the heyday, youngstown's central location between cleveland and pittsburgh also worked against big city things coming to midpoint. therefore, i suppose big-city is too much to expect. still, for as big as the area remains, the events available if someone wants to stay in that area is relatively common pickings.

Originally Posted by JR_C

Most of my neighbors who have joined the group are what I would consider "new Youngstown" and are natives. They have decided they would rather help make their neighborhood better than leave. (I will concede that some may think they have no other choice but to stay in today's housing market.)

i am glad that they have. i still have to remain cynical in the event that things progress too far and it goes back to small potato politics.

Originally Posted by JR_C

You're absolutely right. And that's why I usually try to stay away from generalizations. I think the author of this blog: Youngstown Moxie II is one of the people you're describing.

she indeed was positive before the youngsters and their blogs picked up.

Originally Posted by JR_C

While I happen to think they are helping to improve the morale of some in the city, (which I think is making a difference) what are you basing your statement on?

they are possibly improving the morale of the few people who read them. this is not as many as the clique would like to believe.
sadly, i do not have anything to base the achievements of the blogs on. in the absence of anything beyond the egotistical "raising awareness", i am left with nothing to base a positive opinion. thus, i have to chose between neutral or negative. the youngstown area answers the question all on its own for me.
i mean i am doing just as much from a different perspective right here in this chair. in the old days, i would have actually had to go on market to put up a flier.

Originally Posted by JR_C

When I moved into the city back in late spring of 2002, I wasn't pro-Youngstown. I only cared about the 2 blocks around my house. I didn't really care about the rest of the city. I assumed that everyone else disliked the city, and I found some undiscovered enclave. Eventually, I did come to realize that this wasn't true, and I wasn't living in the only nice neighborhood in Youngstown. And, in 2006 I started to seek out others who felt the same way I did. That's when I found some of the blogs, and websites like Vindy.com. Reading the blogs made me realize that there was more to this city than just my back yard. They showed me a side of the city I didn't know existed. I'm pretty sure there are many other stories like mine in this city.

our mileage clearly varies.
i may be cynical about the people in youngstown, but that is how one learns to survive in the area. youngstown just doesn't work like it should, and when it did the mob was still getting a cut. without jobs, there is quite a bit of desperation in the area that you just can't find anywhere else in the country other than maybe gary, indiana.

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in case someone still is considering moving to youngstown area, and since cortland girl loves links:


Bailout limbo leaves GM town 'on edge' - Washington Post- msnbc.com
(the washington post article, but linked to on msnbc because the post likes to lock up old stories.)

But here in the Mahoning Valley, people wonder: If General Motors goes down how will we get by? The GM plant in Lordstown is one of the few pillars propping up the sagging Rust Belt economy in the small towns and cities in this area of northeastern Ohio. In Lordstown, the plant accounts for more than 70 percent of the tax base.

"Not having GM here would be catastrophic," said Herb Washington, a former star base-stealer in Major League Baseball, who owns 21 McDonalds in the area. "You take that out of here, and what do we have to survive?"

austintown featured as a dying city at forbes.com:
In Depth: America's Fastest-Dying Towns - Forbes.com

It's a major problem for small towns when their economy is tied to a larger city in decline. Such is the case for Austintown, a western suburb of collapsing Youngstown. Like its big brother, Austintown has seen jobs drop since 2000. In-migration has fallen drastically, from 5% in 2000 to 0.6% in 2007, and the area has gone from a middle-class suburb with a moderate poverty rate of 8.8% to one with 13.8%.

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youngstown featured as a dying city at forbes.com:
In Pictures: America's Fastest-Dying Cities - Forbes.com

It's been many years since the Republic Steel Company dominated the economy of Youngstown, Ohio, and nearby Warren and Boardman, Ohio. Through a chain of mergers, Republic Steel is now part of the steel giant ArcelorMittal. ArcelorMittal is headquartered in far-off Luxembourg. Since 2000, nearly 30,000 of the region's 600,000 people have followed suit and departed for different climes themselves.

youngstown being mocked on something awful:
Your Dying Town Sucks: Youngstown, Ohio

Employing an army of t-shirts, blogs, and book clubs, the Youngstown self-defense army will never rest until complete gentrification takes over and white 20-somethings always have a place to buy martinis and knick-knacks on a Saturday night. Ignoring all of the relevant social problems that, if fixed, could actually make Youngstown a better place for everyone, these intolerable clods (I went there) use the respectable platform of saving a city to further their own popularity and agendas, and to f*** anyone who hasn't yet come down with what we like to call "The Youngstown Trio:" hepatitis, herpes, and being ugly.

[JR_C]

Bob Mackey sounds like you, 000000. (or, you sound like Bob Mackey...)

I guess I have the dubious honor of growing up in one "dying" metro, and moving to another. But, those stupid lists don't make me want to move. If anything, they make me want to stay and do my best to make things better. Architects are funny that way; it's our job to see potential, and help make it a reality.

BTW, the original intent of this thread wasn't to convince people to move to the Mahoning Valley. It was simply asking those who have already moved here to tell a little about themselves, and why they chose to move here.

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i'm merely trying to present a dissenting opinion to those who might read this topic, and went with the conversation as it progressed (admittedly, on my own timetable). call me a troll/hijacker/what you will, but if i were a cheerleader/positivist/defender i would be welcomed to celebrate the mahoning valley endlessly. i would love to have conditions on the ground in the valley to warrant the positive vibes.

obviously, a list is not going to induce anyone who is in youngstown to get out. especially those who think that they can change things. i hope change does happen, but until something actually changes i have been conditioned by the challenges which face the area to be suspicious of the people who claim to be working for change which benefits everyone. far too often, the local politicians have only been in it for themselves; i fail to see how the activists are acting in anyones' interests other than their own. earlier you wrote about there not being true altruism; i am not even demanding the alturism be true. i simply would rather that they reach out beyond their little clique before they claim credit for change.

bob mackey is a better writer than i am, and on this topic we happen to agree. in fact, this opinion is the majority of the area about the area. yes, this attitude is another challenge the area faces. jobs would change the attitude. a small clique of people who blog to themselves, want to take credit for anything that does happen, and who are as obnoxiously positive as the rest of the area is negative will not.