Militia In Burns (Ontario, Detroit: landlord, college, camping)

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by ormari

Two things grab me from that image. 1. Why was Bundy allowed to keep his hand in his pocket. No fear of weaponry? 2. Why isn't the flag on the Sheriff's right sleeve reversed/oriented properly for its placement on the uniform.

1. I think he was reaching into his pocket, to pull out his White Privilege Card, to show the Sheriff. 2. I don’t know the answer to that.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Terryj

I think it goes a lot deeper than just this. It's about government owned property in Oregon, yes, about 55,000 square miles of it. How would the good people of Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire feel if the federal government decided that all of the property in these states need to be government land, because that is the land mass we are talking about in Oregon alone.

I enjoy federally owned lands, national parks, and forests. I feel sorry for those people in Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire, who can’t benefit from it, without traveling a long distance. I’d like to see the US government acquire even more federally owned lands, and I’d like to see them throw all of the welfare ranchers and welfare loggers off of it, so the public can use it.

Without public lands, developers would own and use every square inch of land, and people would be prisoners in their own little cubicles. Thats not they type of place I want to live in.

[Terryj]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

I enjoy federally owned lands, national parks, and forests. I feel sorry for those people in Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire, who can’t benefit from it, without traveling a long distance. I’d like to see the US government acquire even more federally owned lands, and I’d like to see them throw all of the welfare ranchers and welfare loggers off of it, so the public can use it.

Without public lands, developers would own and use every square inch of land, and people would be prisoners in their own little cubicles. Thats not they type of place I want to live in.

I can understand your feeling on this, but it would be nice if the counties in which these federal lands are located in got some property tax revenue from them. The federal lands need to be turn over to the state.

[crazyme4878]

Originally Posted by Terryj

I can understand your feeling on this, but it would be nice if the counties in which these federal lands are located in got some property tax revenue from them. The federal lands need to be turn over to the state.

The states can't afford to manage a sudden increase in public land. Many states can barely afford to manage the lands they do have.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by Terryj

I can understand your feeling on this, but it would be nice if the counties in which these federal lands are located in got some property tax revenue from them. The federal lands need to be turn over to the state.

No, I don’t like that idea. It’s federal land, it should stay federal land. The BLM does an excellent job of managing the land.

Plus transferring the land to the state would not increase property tax revenue. The state can’t tax their own land. That would be pointless.

[PNW-type-gal]

Heavily armed men offer 'security' for Oregon militia at wildlife refuge | US news | The Guardian

Not a good development as yet more outsiders, heavily armed, show up - the odds that things spin out of control just increased by quite a bit.

Ammon Bundy, the leader of the militia, had no idea a new group of armed men would be coming, according to Todd Macfarlane, who said he was acting as a liaison between the militia and the public.

“Ammon felt blindsided,” Macfarlane said. “This was not a welcome development. We are trying to de-escalate here – then boom, they all show up.”

Apparently we can thank yet another uninvited person:

Pete Santilli, a rightwing radio host attending the occupation, said he called his contacts at the Pacific Patriot Network earlier in the week and suggested they help provide security

[Sherwoody]

Well maybe they should invite the Hells Angels or Vagos and have a real big shindig.

[ormari]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

Heavily armed men offer 'security' for Oregon militia at wildlife refuge | US news | The Guardian

Not a good development as yet more outsiders, heavily armed, show up - the odds that things spin out of control just increased by quite a bit.
Ammon Bundy, the leader of the militia, had no idea a new group of armed men would be coming, according to Todd Macfarlane, who said he was acting as a liaison between the militia and the public.

“Ammon felt blindsided,” Macfarlane said. “This was not a welcome development. We are trying to de-escalate here – then boom, they all show up.”

The militia asked people to show up. Did they ever call off that request?

Be careful what you wish for...

[crazyme4878]

Can I vent a little? I know I shouldn't, but the argument against the land agencies has always been frustrating for me, and all the coverage of this "protest" has made it doubly so for me . I'm married to a federal land manager, and I know that makes me bias, but it also gives me insight into the agencies. The people like Bundy make it seem like the agencies are run by rogue CIA agents who pull in over six figures in salary. The truth? They work more hours than they get paid, and get paid less than they would in the private sector, but they don't complain because they get security, and get to work in beautiful places doing things they are passionate about. They try to work magic to do more with less and less money. They don't like all the bureaucracy either, but try to work with it. They are constantly aware of the tightrope they have to walk to ensure they meet as many shareholders' needs as possible while often looking further ahead.

Just like any large group of people, there are some less than stellar employees, but a majority of them love theirnjob and love the land. The people making the day to day decisions live in towns where the land they manage is, their kids go to the same schools, they are your neighbors.

So many people use public lands, for recreation, for business; can you really imagine an United States without that access? Where would you hunt? Fish? Camp? How would small ranchers succeed? Small logging operations? Who would own the previously federal land? Giving it away would drive down existing home and land values, and would not get the American people the price value of their collective property (money that could go towards the deficit, toward infrastructure, toward schools, etc.). Putting it up for the highest bidder would potentially mean a closing off of land to the 8middle and lower classes--often the very people Bundy et al are supposedly standing up for.

There are many worthy discussions to be had over specific policies, but this group doesn't seem all that interested in the nuances of management, instead they seem to be all about singular needs and wants--just their own.

[ambient]

Bunch of middle-aged armchair wannabe-Rambos getting boners together over their cool toys. Nothing serious going on here.