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Gender roles have been changing for decades, for the most part becoming less pronounced. Trust me, women are never again going to accept men lazing around the house watching the women do the housework, I don't care whether you're high, awakening, crisis or whatever. Birthrates tend to go up during good economic times and down during recessions/depressions. It may appear to have a bearing on "generation", but it's really economic.
Mmphm...I don't know. In general, I've seen far more acceptance of traditional gender roles amongst the "Gen X" crowd than I do amongst Boomers. Having been an old school feminist back when Hector was a pup, I always kind of wondered what the hell went wrong. At least seeing this upcoming generation--Millennials-- is making me feel vindicated somewhat. I can just ascribe the Gen Xers' foibles to dubious parenting.
I'm not willing to embrace every last word Strauss and How write-- frankly, I found the book tedious-- but I'm willing to go with basic theory.
lol, well 20 years ago wasn't necessarily "Boomer time". Culture, at least popular culture is generally shaped by the young adults aka the 20-40 somethings. 20 years ago it was the alienated, pragmatic, individual Gen-Xers that were setting the standard. Now, we see a shift as the energetic, team oriented, optimist, civic minded Millenials are now beginning to dominate the culture.
I don't want to derail this into a breastfeeding thread, I regret even mentioning it. Though despite what people may have been encouraged to do by the medical community, society in general didn't necessarily share that view.
Discussing this stuff really requires you to step back from your own position and take a big picture view. Look at general trends, not specific things.
Goat, honey...20 years ago was 1991. Many of those Gen Xers were still children, if you accept S&H's timeline. The first Millennials were born in late 1981 (the graduating class of 2000, to which my eldest belonged). And Mr. Aconite and I, who were preschoolers when Kennedy was assassinated, and who were the tail end of the Boomers, were young thirty-somethings.
"Twenty years ago" your standard setters were more likely to be the thirty and forty something Boomers than kids still in middle and high school.
Kids today complain about student loans, as if they should be given a free education, and I just have to shake my head! Standards have been lowered to allow folks to enter college who would not have had a chance in hell to get into a college according to 1975 standards. And then they can get financing that YES - THEY HAVE TO PAY BACK! What a novel idea.
Yeah, but college did NOT cost $20,000 to $30,000 per year back then.
Goat, honey...20 years ago was 1991. Many of those Gen Xers were still children, if you accept S&H's timeline. The first Millennials were born in late 1981 (the graduating class of 2000, to which my eldest belonged). And Mr. Aconite and I, who were preschoolers when Kennedy was assassinated, and who were the tail end of the Boomers, were young thirty-somethings.
"Twenty years ago" your standard setters were more likely to be the thirty and forty something Boomers than kids still in middle and high school.
I can tell your reading from the beginning, lol. I've already been beat up over that one. What I will say is that 1991 was a bit of a transition time. The older boomers were in their late 40's and the oldest Gen-Xers were hitting their 30's. Popular culture at the time was being defined by the transition from Boomers to Gen-X, while the power structure was shifting from Silents to Boomers. At that point, the Boomers were no longer "culture" they were the establishment.
Clinton (first Boomer President) gets elected in 1992 and Grunge/alt rock were dominating the music scene, which were decidedly Gen-X.
Also, if we are to follow S&H, it isn't necessarily the events that shape the generation, but it's the generations reaction to the events that shape history. For instance, Vietnam received the reaction it did, because of the mindset of the Boomers of attacking the established institutions. Vietnam became a symbol of what was wrong with America. It wasn't that Vietnam shaped the Boomers, it was the Boomer reaction that shaped the outlook and course of the war. Look at how the Silents reacted to the war, it was their duty to fight for their country, they didn't question why. The "GI's" couldn't understand why the Boomers were rebelling against a "crisis", why don't they just rise to the occasion as we did? Had Vietnam happened during a Hero generation, the war would have been seen very differently, because of how a Hero generation would have responded to it. Same thing for the Silents, who were the ones who largely fought in Korea, same basic premise, very different outlook and outcome.
IMHO Wrong.
Just for starters a heck of a lot of "GI's" fully understood why the Boomers were rebelling against a "crisis". (Which it wasn't, BTW. We had no Pearl Harbor for starters. Ever read the Tonkin Gulf Resolution and the history behind it?)
I, like the other Boomers here, remember full well where I was the night the ping pong balls determined the fates of our brothers and friends. More than one "GI" dad (and mother) wept with relief if their son's birthdate meant his draft number was 250 or above.
GOAT: Where have you gotten your conclusions? Books? Teachers? How many Boomers have you actually sat and LISTENED to. Three hours in my house with my Boomer relatives and friends would have your head spinning as we corrected some of your theories. Sorry.
Am I passionate? You bet. Probably because I'm pretty tired of being told what Vietnam and that era was like by people who didn't live it and have a very cursory, narrow understanding of it.
I really, truly would like to know how you've gotten these opinions.
And I'm offended, BTW, by the "rise to the occasion" remark. My DH and two of my brothers served in Vietnam. I can assure you they saw the horrors of war. And what they "rose to" was being there for their buddies. THAT is what Vietnam was really about. ANY Vietnam Vet will tell you that.
And maybe, just maybe, protesting an illegal war and trying to stop it WAS rising to the occasion. Hmmmmm??
Last edited by DewDropInn; 09-02-2011 at 09:59 AM..
Yeah, but college did NOT cost $20,000 to $30,000 per year back then.
Yes, but think about this. In western NC at that time: The average teacher in 1971 made about $4000 a year. A 2000 sq. ft home brick home w/ a carport and unfinished basement on a 1/2 acre lot cost about $25K. A VW Beetle cost under $3000.
My tuition for ONE SEMESTER was $850. ONE SEMESTER- and that did NOT include books, dormitory, gas, food. JUST THE TUITION.
SO no, the cost of today's college education as compared to 1971 is NOT more expensive when compared with "real dollars." I just finished putting my 5th thru/ college - and what I spent on my son's education was not much more than I spent on MY OWN (talking tuition only here - but his tuition included books - mine didn't) and I graduated in 1974.
One thing this theory does not consider is the growing trend of women having children at an older age. My parents were 41 when they had me, which was a bit more unusual at the time I was born. This means my family technically skipped a generation. With more women having children in their late 30's and 40's, this generation skipping will happen more in the coming decades. Maybe this helped me have a better relationship with my parents!
Because of this relationship, I feel the need to give a shout out to the Silent Generation. I saw some Boomer posts about helping women get in the workforce, but some women in the Silent Generation led the way. My mom was one of only two women working at a large corporation in her area when she graduated from college, and she was one of a relatively small number of women at the time to major in a science. So yay to the Silent Generation!
Because of this relationship, I feel the need to give a shout out to the Silent Generation. I saw some Boomer posts about helping women get in the workforce, but some women in the Silent Generation led the way. My mom was one of only two women working at a large corporation in her area when she graduated from college, and she was one of a relatively small number of women at the time to major in a science. So yay to the Silent Generation!
Absolutely true. Kudos to your mother. I'm sure she fought a lot of battles.
BTW: Single mothers from that generation who were in the work force had an especially difficult time. Especially if they were single because of divorce. They had two battles: being divorced in a culture where it was very unusual and trying to work (and advance) in the so-called man's world.
Yes, but think about this. In western NC at that time: The average teacher in 1971 made about $4000 a year. A 2000 sq. ft home brick home w/ a carport and unfinished basement on a 1/2 acre lot cost about $25K. A VW Beetle cost under $3000.
My tuition for ONE SEMESTER was $850. ONE SEMESTER- and that did NOT include books, dormitory, gas, food. JUST THE TUITION.
SO no, the cost of today's college education as compared to 1971 is NOT more expensive when compared with "real dollars." I just finished putting my 5th thru/ college - and what I spent on my son's education was not much more than I spent on MY OWN (talking tuition only here - but his tuition included books - mine didn't) and I graduated in 1974.
I am currently paying back student loans (and will be for many more years). The amount I pay towards my student loans every month is MORE than my mortgage and day care costs combined. Having that hanging over my head at the same time knowing that you can now buy a house on my street for $25,000 (same as what you could pay in 1971) which is nowhere near what I paid for mine, and knowing that my degree is pretty much worthless in this economy does make me kind of want to complain about the cost of education and paying back student loans.
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