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Old 05-13-2012, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,584 posts, read 84,795,337 times
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I just read the whole article. That will stay with me for a long time. I remember the first time I ever heard of someone doing this--it was a local father who normally didn't drop the baby off at daycare and he just forgot--I was SO angry. I didn't understand how someone could forget that their baby was in the car.

I had no idea this happens so frequently, and the explanation about how the brain/memory works makes a lot of sense. In their minds, most of these parents thought they dropped off their kid, and I can see that happening. My mind works that way all the time--I am running around in the morning, getting everything together I will need for the day, and I know I took my lunch out of the refrigerator and put in the bag I use to cart my lunch and mail and papers to work--and then I'll look at the kitchen counter and there sits my lunch, which I "remember" putting in the bag already.

Yes, yes, a kid isn't a lunch, but the brain doesn't know the difference and it works the same way. In their mind, these parents already did what they normally do.

I just reviewed my own morning routine that I did 18-20 years ago, and the reason this could not have happened to me is that I drove to my parents house with my daughter, and because there was no parking at the train station, I left my car at their house and my dad drove me to the train. My parents would have immediately noticed if I came to their door with no baby.

I have a good friend who had her first child last August. Her life and job is stressful and busy, and I am going to send her that article and insist that she read it. I'm sure she would think it could never happen to her, either.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:06 PM
 
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I agree that accidents happen, and this is all very sad. BUT. Parents who leave their kids in the car, and the kids die, should be punished for child abuse/manslaughter just like parents who kill their children under other circumstances. Why? Because I can see how parents who want to abuse their children could lock their kids in their car and walk away, knowing they'd just get a slap on the wrist. That worries me.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:21 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,701,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
I agree that accidents happen, and this is all very sad. BUT. Parents who leave their kids in the car, and the kids die, should be punished for child abuse/manslaughter just like parents who kill their children under other circumstances. Why? Because I can see how parents who want to abuse their children could lock their kids in their car and walk away, knowing they'd just get a slap on the wrist. That worries me.
I don't think anyone would argue that someone who deliberately attempts to murder another person should receive a slap on the wrist.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
I agree that accidents happen, and this is all very sad. BUT. Parents who leave their kids in the car, and the kids die, should be punished for child abuse/manslaughter just like parents who kill their children under other circumstances. Why? Because I can see how parents who want to abuse their children could lock their kids in their car and walk away, knowing they'd just get a slap on the wrist. That worries me.
I think anyone in the court system or police department could ascertain whether it was a normally good, attentive, and caring parent who made a tragic mistake, and a parent who was abusive, neglectful, or just didn't want to be bothered with their kid. Problems arise when the law becomes one size fits all. Sure, some parents can and will do such an awful thing, but surely those kind of sadistic and cruel parents would be distinguishable from parents who are loving, caring parents. It would take a special kind of evil to deliberately leave a child to die in such an agonizing way. I think it's safe to say a lot, if not most parents in this situation would never do such an awful thing on purpose, and shouldn't be treated as if they had.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:32 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,319,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNomus View Post
I think anyone in the court system or police department could ascertain whether it was a normally good, attentive, and caring parent who made a tragic mistake, and a parent who was abusive, neglectful, or just didn't want to be bothered with their kid. Problems arise when the law becomes one size fits all. Sure, some parents can and will do such an awful thing, but surely those kind of sadistic and cruel parents would be distinguishable from parents who are loving, caring parents. It would take a special kind of evil to deliberately leave a child to die in such an agonizing way. I think it's safe to say a lot, if not most parents in this situation would never do such an awful thing on purpose, and shouldn't be treated as if they had.
I'm always surprised by the number of child abusing parents are described as "good parents" right before they kill or hurt their children. As for a special kind of evil, well, I think all child abusers are "a special kind of evil"!!!
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:33 PM
 
Location: TX
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Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
I don't think anyone would argue that someone who deliberately attempts to murder another person should receive a slap on the wrist.
Yes, but how do you know which deaths are accidental and which deaths are deliberate? It's not like with fatalities from physical assault, where there are specific ways of ruling out the possibility of the death being an accident. A child who is locked in a car in the heat is done so the same exact way, whether it's a plan to kill them or pure absent-mindedness. So theoretically, a person could intentionally lock their infant or toddler in a car when it's 100 degrees outside for the purpose of killing them and then put on a show like it was all an accident and they couldn't be more sorry, etc.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:15 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 5,851,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Yes, but how do you know which deaths are accidental and which deaths are deliberate? It's not like with fatalities from physical assault, where there are specific ways of ruling out the possibility of the death being an accident. A child who is locked in a car in the heat is done so the same exact way, whether it's a plan to kill them or pure absent-mindedness. So theoretically, a person could intentionally lock their infant or toddler in a car when it's 100 degrees outside for the purpose of killing them and then put on a show like it was all an accident and they couldn't be more sorry, etc.

Theoretically, yes. But you could the same about ANY accidental death of a child. Did the child drown...or was it murder? Did they really wander out of the house in the middle of the night and get hit by a car...or did the parent push them out?

That's why we have the jury system and the concept of reasonable doubt. Punishing someone because it MIGHT have been murder without evidence is not how our law system is meant to work. Especially if they are a parent already suffering in ways most people could never imagine.

If a parent had a child die in this manner and had no record of abuse, no record of neglect, if everyone close to them agrees they loved their child- frankly, that's enough for me. I don't want that person punished anymore than they already are...even if it means the very small possibility that a murderer could go free.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:21 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,701,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Yes, but how do you know which deaths are accidental and which deaths are deliberate? It's not like with fatalities from physical assault, where there are specific ways of ruling out the possibility of the death being an accident. A child who is locked in a car in the heat is done so the same exact way, whether it's a plan to kill them or pure absent-mindedness. So theoretically, a person could intentionally lock their infant or toddler in a car when it's 100 degrees outside for the purpose of killing them and then put on a show like it was all an accident and they couldn't be more sorry, etc.
That's for detectives and judges to ascertain.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:38 PM
 
Location: TX
6,486 posts, read 6,388,858 times
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Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
That's for detectives and judges to ascertain.
Which they would not be able to do. At least with other methods (JJCat mentioned drowning), they could check the body for bruises which would indicate the child was being held against their will. As I said earlier, a person would put a child in a car seat the same exact way whether they intended to leave them there or to get them out. There is literally no way of catching a parent who chooses this method of murder.

Not saying a person should be punished for either murder or neglect in these cases, unless somehow there was proof. But mimimom makes a good point. If some "slap on the wrist" became the widely known standard for closing this sort of case, we might only see an increase in "accidental" fatalities concerning children locked in vehicles in the heat.

I pray not.

But food for thought.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:53 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 2,487,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Which they would not be able to do. At least with other methods (JJCat mentioned drowning), they could check the body for bruises which would indicate the child was being held against their will. As I said earlier, a person would put a child in a car seat the same exact way whether they intended to leave them there or to get them out. There is literally no way of catching a parent who chooses this method of murder.

Not saying a person should be punished for either murder or neglect in these cases, unless somehow there was proof. But mimimom makes a good point. If some "slap on the wrist" became the widely known standard for closing this sort of case, we might only see an increase in "accidental" fatalities concerning children locked in vehicles in the heat.

I pray not.

But food for thought.
I don't think a slap on the wrist should be standard in these cases. I don't even think there should BE a standard. Each case should be looked at individually. Whenever a child dies, there is an investigation. I don't think any law enforcement officer is going to take a parent at their word, "It was an accident," and close the case. They are going to check the families history with the police and child services, they are going to talk to doctors, teachers, family, friends, co-workers, etc., they are going to check the child for signs of previous abuse, injuries, or neglect. A parent who accidentally left their child will surely stand up through all the scrutiny as good parents. A parent who wants their child to suffer a horrible death will have shown some signs of that at some point. Of course, there may be some extremely conniving parents who manage to convince everyone that they accidentally left their child when they really meant to kill him, but I think that is the exception rather than the rule.
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