Why are American children disrespectful? (bullying, legally, mother, drug)
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Because early experiences feed into the peer culture. From birth to 5, peers aren't a big influence. Parents are. After that, peers start taking over. If you and your peers have been told from the time you were as big as a lima bean that you are special, the entire group thinks they're special and stuggles to be special among a group of special people.
If you take a child who was not treated special and put them in a group that was, that child will feel they're supposed to be special (this was part of dd#1's issue. I do not tell my children they are special. I tell them they have an obligation to grow up to be contributing members of society so my beliefs go against their peer group (which makes the peer influence obvious)). If you take a child who was treated as special and put them in a group that believes it isn't special, that child will conclude they are not special.
The truth of the matter is the things our kids take from us are the things that fit with their peer group. That's why you can increase the odds of your child graduating from high school and going on to college just by picking a school where this is the norm for them to attend. Our greatest influence is that we pick our children's peers. We tend to choose to live in areas with people who have the same values we do so our chidlren's peers come from families like ours. So, parents set the basic structure but the peer group rules. You don't get to change your mind later if you pick the wrong peer group for your kids unless you change the peer group.
I wish you could see dd#1. The transformation from her switching schools is night and day. The difference? Her peer group. Dd#2 I've never had to worry about because she's very intelligent so her peer group is very intelligent children. They tend to separate themselves from the crowd. While peer influences are just as strong in her group, they push for higher goals. That's what this group does and that's ok. Dd#1 runs with a more average crowd. It was a nightmare when that crowd was a bunch of kids who think they are special just for existing who had no goals in life. Her current peer group also thinks it's special just for existing but they have goals. So, now dd#1 has goals AND actually works to attain special status (she's joined marching band, plays sports, joins groups....)
Another interesting transformation is a girl who moved to the district I teach in mid year. She came in the rebel...the individual...had an attitude of no one can tell me what to do... In 6 months time she was dressing like the other kids, working to improve her grades (grades are important in the school where I teach) and making the same kinds of goals they were. Peer influences are strong. She came frm an area that was lower middle class where kids were rebels. She moved to one where the goal is to get into the best college. It did not take her long at all to transform to fit the group. In this case it was a good transformation. Often it's not when kids get in with the wrong group. Dd#1 got in with the wrong group in her old school. Fortunately, she picked up the you are special message from them and grabbed the chance to be special by being the new kid in school and transferred to the school where I teach where she got a new peer group.
In order for us to get rid of the you are special message, we need to adopt it as a society. As long as the peer group thinks they are special just for breathing, it will remain in spite of parents like me who try very hard to have their kids not hear the message. I have learned that I cannot block out the voices of my children's peers. All I can do is steer them towards better peers. Fortunately, dd#2 is already there. Because she's tracking with an accomplished group, she accepts responsibility, sets goals and works to achieve them.
If it is the norm for the group to be coddled, they'll expect coddling. Unfortunately, it is the norm for parents to coddle their children. To make our kids stronger, we need it to become the norm for them to be allowed to fall down, skin their knees and figure out how to get back up. In our current society, parents who don't coddle are seen as bad parents. The problem is parents who do coddle are the bad parents. They are not allowing their children to learn to be strong.
How exactly, do you move into neighborhood where all other parents in the neighborhood share your families values? You say that your dd's old school had a problem with kids who thought of themselves as "special" and that it was a lower middle class school but it's not a problem at her new school? You say that your kids did not get the "I'm special" message from you, they got it from their peers yet you think that all other parents are at fault for putting this message in their kids' heads.
How exactly, do you move into neighborhood where all other parents in the neighborhood share your families values? You say that your dd's old school had a problem with kids who thought of themselves as "special" and that it was a lower middle class school but it's not a problem at her new school? Your post reeks of nonsense.
Not to mention that apparently intelligent children don't get into trouble...because ostensibly they are too busy pondering higher level stuff. Riiiiight.
The issue really is whether or not these things are the norm for the group. If the group expects to be able to do whatever thy want, it won't matter if you try to impose different rules. The group will rule. Parents choose the group in that we choose where our kids grow up and where they go to school. As they say in real estate it's "Location, location, location". If you want kids who have goal, choose a peer group that has goals. If you want kids who have morals, choose a peer group that has morals (this is why kids who grow up in a church with youth groups they are part of have higher graduation rates, lower drug use rates and lower teen pregnancy rates).
It's not a matter of teaching your kids structure (though it will work on some just not most). It's a matter of getting them in with a peer group with structure.
Yes but that's the tricky part. It's hard to find these nowadays. A lots of parents with the "i love my kids so I let them do whatever they want" attitude.
Yes but that's the tricky part. It's hard to find these nowadays. A lots of parents with the "i love my kids so I let them do whatever they want" attitude.
Lots?
IRL I've known less than a handful. The elementary aged kids I see now are incredibly polite and well behaved and their parents appear to be doing a great job.
I just wanted to add that I'm not seeing this pervasive problem of disrespectful children running amok all over town. I see a lot of respectful behavior. The other day I was leaving the library and a teenage boy dressed in sagging jeans, oversized t-shirt, baseball hat, a teen who many would look at and say "trouble", stopped to hold the door for my kids and me. I have a toddler who walks at her own pace so he stood there for good 30 seconds to wait for us to even get to the door. And btw, Ivory, this was in a lower middle class neighborhood. I regularly run into kids who are polite and respectful. I don't see disrespectful youth as the huge problem that some are painting in this thread.
How exactly, do you move into neighborhood where all other parents in the neighborhood share your families values? You say that your dd's old school had a problem with kids who thought of themselves as "special" and that it was a lower middle class school but it's not a problem at her new school? You say that your kids did not get the "I'm special" message from you, they got it from their peers yet you think that all other parents are at fault for putting this message in their kids' heads.
You'd be surprised how alike your neighbors you are.
In a nutshell, the values we teach that are accepted by the peer group are kept while most of the values we teach that are rejected by the peer group are rejected. This is why it's so tough to raise kids in rough areas. The peer influence is very strong. When you choose where you live, you choose your child's peer group. You did so just like the other parents in the area.
We all like to think we're individuals and TOTALLY different than our neighbors but we're not. The truth is we fit into neat little pockets that influence things like where we live.
I didn't say thinking they were special wasn't a problem at my new school. In fact, I said THAT particular problem still exists. It's not as much as a problem because they are growing up with the expectation of success as well. It's just a rude awakening every now and again when specialness doesn't cut it.
I just wanted to add that I'm not seeing this pervasive problem of disrespectful children running amok all over town. I see a lot of respectful behavior. The other day I was leaving the library and a teenage boy dressed in sagging jeans, oversized t-shirt, baseball hat, a teen who many would look at and say "trouble", stopped to hold the door for my kids and me. I have a toddler who walks at her own pace so he stood there for good 30 seconds to wait for us to even get to the door. And btw, Ivory, this was in a lower middle class neighborhood. I regularly run into kids who are polite and respectful. I don't see disrespectful youth as the huge problem that some are painting in this thread.
This mirrors my experience too Dorthy. Kids, even teenagers, seem to rise to the expectations of adults far more than they are ever given credit for.
You'd be surprised how alike your neighbors you are.
In a nutshell, the values we teach that are accepted by the peer group are kept while most of the values we teach that are rejected by the peer group are rejected. This is why it's so tough to raise kids in rough areas. The peer influence is very strong. When you choose where you live, you choose your child's peer group. You did so just like the other parents in the area.
We all like to think we're individuals and TOTALLY different than our neighbors but we're not. The truth is we fit into neat little pockets that influence things like where we live.
I didn't say thinking they were special wasn't a problem at my new school. In fact, I said THAT particular problem still exists. It's not as much as a problem because they are growing up with the expectation of success as well. It's just a rude awakening every now and again when specialness doesn't cut it.
Not all neighborhoods are as homogeneous as yours. Mine is mix of middle/lower middle class and poor. There are many people who live in my neighborhood because it's where they grew up and where their parents and grandparents grew up. Many choose to live here because it's walkable and near public transport. Some live here because it's near their work or college. Many others live here because it's affordable. Some live here because they like the architecture, etc. I can't imagine anyone would choose this neighborhood for the schools which are average to below average when it comes to test scores. I think that the neighborhoods with the top schools are more homogeneous because people choose them for the schools. The neighborhoods with mediocre schools are more diverse in their populations. Anyways, back to the topic at hand....
I agree with you that peers have a strong influence on one another especially when they spend vast amounts of time together in daycare, school, after school care, etc. I also think that children and teens (and adults) are influenced by media and our consumer oriented culture. I don't agree that there is a pervasive problem of permissive parents teaching their children that they are special. I also disagree that this is a major and new problem of disrespectful children.
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I regularly run into kids who are polite and respectful. I don't see disrespectful youth as the huge problem that some are painting in this thread.
