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It's interesting how people think like this: We did it this way in my family, and nobody died or went to prison, so it must be right.
So this boils down to: I am right "because it is me".
Or, the feelings based argument: We did it this way, and I felt good, so it must be right. I like having my kids around, and they don't seem to mind, so it must be OK. If it feels good, it must be OK and healthy.
No analysis, no objectivity, no introspection, no critical analysis, no depth. Simply: this is how I do things, this is how I feel, so it must be correct. And if someone says something different, I am to take it personally and insult them personally, rather than sticking to the issue and examining the issue on the merits.
So interesting philosophically!
Marc, it's much worse than that. If it worked for them, and they have a "live and let live" attitude about how others live their lives, fine. But we have seen in this thread that they will denigrate and ridicule those that choose to live their lives differently. Very sad.
You will get your SS, unless the Republicans end it. Who did you vote for? Trump = end SS as we know it. Clinton = protect SS as it is, and tweak it to fix it, probably by raising taxes and other things.
A person in his 20s doesn't need to be owning a home. They are in a mode of establishing a career. They will probably move. This is the decade for cheap apartments, and/or living with parents for a while.
Who I voted for has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that SS as we have it will not last. I and many of my generation realize that SS is not something to take for granted.
I agree, most people in their 20s wont own a home, but younger home ownership is down in general. So naturally that means more people will be living with their parents. There are lots of reasons for this but cost of owning a home is defiantly one of them.
Honestly, my first thought when reading your post was that you failed to instill the value of self sufficiency. Many of that younger generation have that sense of entitlement, that someone else will take care of them forever. Their parents failed to make them understand what it means to take care of ones' self.
However, you have the opportunity to fix that now. And you need to...my dad, who is 65 years old, still has that sense that someone else will always take care of him, because someone always has. Don't let your son be that person. Instead of fighting with your son, sit down with him and have a heart to heart as adults. Tell him you would like to talk to him without anyone yelling, and then don't yell, even if he does.
My guess is that you are likely cooking for him, doing his laundry, cleaning up after him, etc. If he refuses to respond to a logical calm conversation, STOP doing anything for him. Dirty dishes go on his bed. Dirty clothes go on his floor. If he wants to eat, he can buy his own food and cook it himself. This may mean you have to buy each day's food each day. If he is on your health insurance or car insurance policy, or on your phone plan, that can end also. Don't give him the wi-fi password if you are paying for it. Don't do anything malicious, but stop enabling him to be so lazy.
If someone stops taking care of him at home, one of two things will happen:
1. He will grow up and figure out how life works
2. He will find someone else to take care of him
Obviously #1 is better for everyone, but #2 would get him out of your house, at least.
For what it is worth, I moved out of my parents' house at 22, but my sister, who was a totally normal responsible adult, lived at home until she was 26. Living at home with the folks into the mid 20s is pretty common these days.
I don't subscribe to "raise them and kick them out". I have every intention of providing a home for my children regardless of age. At the same time, I need to see that there is a desire to be independent. Short of having a medical problem, it's unfathomable to me to be dependent on anyone. Moving back into my mother's house would only be an option if I literally was about to be a skid row bum. i see far too many younger people content to just coast through life because they feel they have a safety net. This is especially true of those who are born to middle-upper middle class parents. They just don't feel the urgency to take off on their own. I admit that I can't relate because I was (and still am) very independent. On my own accord, I moved out the moment I had my first job. My first job didn't pay a whole lot, but it was a start and I wanted to prove that I could make it on my own. I would have even roomed with other girls. Nowadays, young people want to start out already at the top. Instead of buying the $100k fixer as a starter home, they want to have the $500k first home. They want the six figure job at 25. That's nice and all, but along the way I think something was lost. Shall I say drive?
Our kids are far more well off than either of us. My eldest daughter has the tendency to feel content being taken care of, while my youngest has shown a strong independent streak from infancy. That's not a knock on my daughter, but independence is not something that she particularly cares about at least now. Maybe that will change once she's a teenager and hates our "oppressive rules" At the same time, I have zero intention of forcing her out or into independence. I hope that it'll be a gentle, natural transition. Maybe that's what's missing here with the OP -- she's frustrated and it's manifesting itself.
Maybe she should arrange to find him an apartment and maybe supplement the rent until he can make it on his own. She gets her space and he gets the training wheels taken off. If he is a responsible person, he'd put an end to the help line once he gets on his feet.
I've always been headstrong and independent. I went to collage half way across the country. I pay my own bills, but it wouldn't makes sense for me to have my own place if I moved back to my home city while I have debt and my parents have an empty room. It simply isn't pragmatic. It has nothing to do with drive or being comfortable being taken care of.
I understand some people have to "prove" that they can make it on your own and thats fine, whatever floats their boat. I know some people have clashing personalities/situations in life that would make living with family not worth it for them. The OP seems like one of those situations.
Marc, it's much worse than that. If it worked for them, and they have a "live and let live" attitude about how others live their lives, fine. But we have seen in this thread that they will denigrate and ridicule those that choose to live their lives differently. Very sad.
Nobody is doing that (at least I'm not).
The problem is when there are assumptions that because someone lives with their parents past a certain age, they must be jobless and mooching off their parents and contributing nothing around the house. Or, that the parents don't want to let go of their kid.
That's what I'm arguing (and will continue to do so).
The problem is when there are assumptions that because someone lives with their parents past a certain age, they must be jobless and mooching off their parents and contributing nothing around the house. Or, that the parents don't want to let go of their kid.
That's what I'm arguing (and will continue to do so).
My comment wasn't directed at you. If you haven't read the whole thread, go back and read and you will see what I'm referring to. If you have read the whole thread, than you certainly know what I'm referring to.
As the assumptions that you stated above, while not universal, they are frequently accurate.
I've always been headstrong and independent. I went to collage half way across the country. I pay my own bills, but it wouldn't makes sense for me to have my own place if I moved back to my home city while I have debt and my parents have an empty room. It simply isn't pragmatic. It has nothing to do with drive or being comfortable being taken care of.
I understand some people have to "prove" that they can make it on your own and thats fine, whatever floats their boat. I know some people have clashing personalities/situations in life that would make living with family not worth it for them. The OP seems like one of those situations.
Pragmatic or not, I personally wouldn't move back into my moms house. And I have a great relationship with my mother. I wanted to live my life, on my own, and on my own terms. I had student loan debt too, which I paid along with rent/mortgage. But that's me and I'm fine with whatever works for others.
It doesn't look like the OP will back to offer clarification, so why don't you tell me how you know the intimate details of their situation such that you can claim with certainty that there was no change in circumstances (as defined by you above).
The OP didn't say there was a change in circumstance, so why would you assume that there was? It seems like that would have been an important detail, no? She even said she still lives in the same apartment she raised him in.
26? Ouch. Seriously wrong in my opinion. That is going to have negative repercussions one day.
Ah, but I care not a whit for your opinion. You haven't been there, done that, yet seem to think your opinion has value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1to1onto
I think I've lost track of the number of times I've been blamed for the actions of a GROWN MAN. I was a SINGLE mother for crying out loud. I think it should be expected of me to not have done as good a job raising him as a married woman. Yeah, there are things I could have done better. But I certainly NEVER told him that it was okay to live off other people. I always told him to be nice to other children and to respect his teachers.
And to clarify, when I told him he could stay with me as long as he wanted, I didn't think he would want to stay with me very long. I thought he would be able to figure out himself that he needed to support himself. I mean, even a 7-year-old should realize that their parents will get old and die before them. There needs to be a good chunk of timeing him, and him supporting me when I need it between me support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
A freeloading adult child does not have any rights to expect the freeloading to exist in perpetuity. A parent who is doing the wrong thing by harboring adult children from life is entitled to realize the mistake and change her mind. She saw what she had created and decided to make a course correction. Good on her. Better late than never.
We see a lot of hostile and guilty defensiveness in this thread. Could that be from parents who are doing the wrong thing, know it, but are too emotionally frail to do the right thing? Could it be that some parents are willing to silently damage their kids so that they can be spared the loneliness? Could it be that being needed is addictive, and when it is taken away by normal maturation and detachment, that some parents want to reverse reality and keep the past from becoming the future? Interesting questions!
As the OP said herself, she seems to think her son will have some obligation to care for her when she ages.
A free loading parent does not have any right to expect her own freeloading to exist in perpetuity either. Judging by her current ultimatum to her son, I would expect him to tell her to pound sand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat
Pretty sad that so many parents here would be so quick to go back on their word to their own kid, without any discussion, and for no reason other than their own convenience.
Seriously!
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At the same time, I have zero intention of forcing her out or into independence. I hope that it'll be a gentle, natural transition. Maybe that's what's missing here with the OP -- she's frustrated and it's manifesting itself.
