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Take it from someone who was spanked, but also had a couple of beatings. Beatings are given by someone in a fit of rage and leaves bruises for a very long time. There is a HUGE difference between the two.
One of my beatings came when my father heard me say, (under my breath?....apparently NOT)...say, "I hate that sonofab**ch". It involved both hands AND the broom handle and resulted in severe brusing to my arms, back and legs, as well as a bloody nose. Believe me...there is a HUGE difference between a beating and a spanking.
Did it hurt my heart? Yeah, for a while it did. However, I'm the one who said it. You don't say those things about your parents. Should he have handled it differently? Oh yes, absolutely...but I survived and I NEVER said anything hurful like that about one of my parents again...well, at least not while they were on the property. LOL
I have an issue with this.
I believe that being spanked breeds an attitude of its "ok to hurt the ones you love" and that can lead to children saying things like you said.
I only can give my anecdotal evidence but my parents never hit any of us ever. We were certainly disciplined, and occasionally angry about it, but besides never hitting us they were careful to never call us names. As a result neither I nor my brother and sisters EVER called our parents names, under our breath or otherwise. Even to each other when we complained about our parents it never reached that level of anger because our parents never allowed that culture of hurting someone to be okay. And hitting your children always sends the message "its okay that I hurt you even though I love you".
My daughter was raised the same way. She had "typical" teenage issues with being angry about being disciplined but it has never escalated to calling names or hitting. She also will not tolerate being called names by anyone who cares for her as she just broke up with a boyfriend who called her "btch" in anger.
I understand people feel that hitting is good for their children, I just don't agree.
And I really do wish we would quit making this thread about spanking and stick to the original topic of debate: "Taking a belt to their kids". There IS a difference. I am not the thread police but we are talking about separate issues here.
I don't think it is all that different. I don't think, in any case, we are talking about beatings. My Dad, poor guy, would spank us with a belt and a yardstick. (He hated it. As such, he was a natural positive disciplinarian else wise. Damned bible.)
I agree with you, hitting is very, very wrong. But for the sake, I guess, of differentiating spanking versus beating with broomsticks (OMG), belts, switches or other weapons, I just want to delineate how much is WAY TOO MUCH.
Exactly right Anna.... How we discipline our children is no one else's business. I just love how people gloat like crazy over how their kids turned out absolutely fabulous, just because of their parenting techniques. Hey, some kids are just wired to not stray too far over the line. Taking credit for your child's/children's choices to simply be really good kids is the same thing as living vicariously through your children, IMHO.
I don't care what kind of discipline you choose to use, when raising your children. The thing of it is, you're only around them for a certain amount of time. They eventually get out of your sight. Ultimately, it's THEIR choices that determine how they'll behave. In my opinion, it's only the child who deserves the credit for being a "good kid". As has been said, there are a whole lot of amazing kids AND adults who were spanked as children and they survived AND harbor no ill will or psychological damage from the experience. Hey, if you got "spanked" as a child and you're screwed up over it....newsflash, you were "off" to start with. That spanking had NOTHING to do with it.
Another newsflash, if you were the kind of kid who got spanked ALL of the time, and yet you still did what you were being spanked for...YOU were an out of control, hard-headed little brat who probably would be diagnosed with ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder), now-a-days. Also, if you got spanked all the time...what the H*LL was wrong with you that you didn't stop doing the crap that you shouldn't have been doing? .....the things that were getting you spanked? I mean, DUH! "Dr. It hurts when I bend my finger backwards". DR...... "DON'T bend your finger backwards" Incidentally, if you WERE that kind of kid, the one who constantly did what you were told not to do, or constantly did what you KNEW you weren't supposed to do....because you were defying "authority"?..... YOU are/were a control freak!!
You are both grossly misguided and wrong.
When "discipline" crosses the line to cruel and unusual punishment, as it does when children are abused with foreign objects, it is everyone's business. And everyone has a personal responsibility to intervene to the extent that they can to protect a child where they observe abuse.
You need to take a deep breath and do some deep reflection. Do you think it no one else's business when a man beats his wife? What do you think the difference is when a man beats his helpless child? I'll tell you what it is....it is even more important for anyone and everyone in society to intervene in the case of the child. As horrific as spousal abuse is, in most cases an adult has options and can run....can seek help from authorities. A small child is a totally helpless victim who needs YOUR empathy and help as well as that of every responsible adult.
It is reprehensible for anyone to take a "look the other way" position where child abuse is concerned.
When "discipline" crosses the line to cruel and unusual punishment, as it does when children are abused with foreign objects, it is everyone's business. And everyone has a personal responsibility to intervene to the extent that they can to protect a child where they observe abuse.
You need to take a deep breath and do some deep reflection. Do you think it no one else's business when a man beats his wife? What do you think the difference is when a man beats his helpless child? I'll tell you what it is....it is even more important for anyone and everyone in society to intervene in the case of the child. As horrific as spousal abuse is, in most cases an adult has options and can run....can seek help from authorities. A small child is a totally helpless victim who needs YOUR empathy and help as well as that of every responsible adult.
It is reprehensible for anyone to take a "look the other way" position where child abuse is concerned.
What exactly are you people missing? Have I NOT made it perfectly clear how WRONG I feel it is for people to hit anyone with an object? Did I NOT say that if I saw someone beating anyONE, with anyTHING, that I WOULD intervene? The person I referred to, who pulled off his belt to strike his child....I was on GUARD! If that person had done anything more than TAP that child with the belt, I would have seriously intervened. BTW....I am not seriously misguided, however, I have met far too many people with out of control children. Children who have parents who are completely oblivious to the fact that their children are behaving like wild animals...because in those parents eyes, they're "just kids being kids". Give me a break. You people raise your children the way you want. "We" will raise our children the way WE see fit. Our children have turned (are turning out) to be amazing, well-adjusted, members of society. They are also the kind of children who are an absolute treat for people of ALL ages to be around. Why? Because they have been raised by down to earth, decent people who are acutely aware of the impact "undisciplined" children have on our society. Not only are we good parents, but best friends with our children. (That IS possible) Many of those "undisciplined" children can NOT cope in a world where rules and regulations dictate their success in it! You make poor choices on the job and I can guarantee you this, damn few bosses are going to say, "Yes, but Johnny, the important thing is this...have you learned anything from your mistakes." No, the average Joe Blow boss is going to say, "I'm sorry Johnny, but that's just unacceptable behavior....you're fired."
When "discipline" crosses the line to cruel and unusual punishment, as it does when children are abused with foreign objects, it is everyone's business. And everyone has a personal responsibility to intervene to the extent that they can to protect a child where they observe abuse.
You need to take a deep breath and do some deep reflection. Do you think it no one else's business when a man beats his wife? What do you think the difference is when a man beats his helpless child? I'll tell you what it is....it is even more important for anyone and everyone in society to intervene in the case of the child. As horrific as spousal abuse is, in most cases an adult has options and can run....can seek help from authorities. A small child is a totally helpless victim who needs YOUR empathy and help as well as that of every responsible adult.
It is reprehensible for anyone to take a "look the other way" position where child abuse is concerned.
No disrespect, but I don't need to step back and do any reflection at all. Last time I checked, we lived in America, a country where people are free to believe as they wish. It is every person's right to live by their own standards and beliefs, and it is their right to pass those standards and beliefs on to their children, whether or not you or I or anybody else agrees with them. Some think it's abusive to take your child to church every Sunday. Some people don't believe in eating meat, or vaccinating their child, or Santa Claus. Does that make it okay for them to force others to believe as they do, or try to pass laws to force the rest of the world to do things their way?
If a child is being BEATEN, as in bloody, welted, bruised, cut, etc., of course it's only common sense that it is no longer a private matter between parent and child. Then it is a LEGAL matter, because that is against the law. But if a parent believes in spanking with a belt, or a hairbrush, if they are not injuring their child in any way, it is a family matter. Meaning, nobody's business. For you to even bring up spousal abuse and child abuse shows how so many people don't know how to see any shades of gray in the situation, and is also the reason why so many resources are used up investigating petty spanking situations, all the while we're constantly reading about another dead child who starved or was beaten to death and social services let them slip through the cracks.
Now a real CHILD ABUSE situation, I would never look the other way. But guess what, if you're so busy looking at a parent spanking their child, you are looking the other way when there is actually a child being abused. That is what I see happening when I read about child abuse cases.
So maybe it's reprehensible for you to be looking in the wrong direction, therefore looking the other way, when it comes to child abuse.
Beachmel: When you say things like "you people" it's hard to want to read your posts. They come off very disrespectful and demeaning. Just an observation. I love a good respectful debate, but I am really put off by the tone of your posts. I find when I feel heated, walking away from the computer a while and then coming back cool and collected helps.
Beachmel: When you say things like "you people" it's hard to want to read your posts. They come off very disrespectful and demeaning. Just an observation. I love a good respectful debate, but I am really put off by the tone of your posts. I find when I feel heated, walking away from the computer a while and then coming back cool and collected helps.
I find it quite ironic that someone who is CONSTANTLY making disrespectful and demeaning comments to those who do not share their beliefs, has such a thin skin when the mirror is reflected back on them.
I am not being disrespectful or rude. Please re-read my posts and tell me where I am. NOwhere did I refer to people who disagree with me as "you people", which is considered quite demeaning as it's intended to be. Thanks.
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