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i think people have different definitions of savings. i consider pretty much all of my money "savings."
its funny how people are so dumb with their money and then we are all supposed to feel some obligation to help them out. i dont mind helping people who cant help themselves but helping people who waste their money and never thought to save is really aggravating. the problem is that if you offer them no help, you have lots of homeless people and starving people running around jerking tears from bleeding hearts.
Are we talking about retirement funds in savings?
There is always unemployment and/or welfare.
America is much more poor than we give ourselves credit for. This is what happens in brazilized income disparities. You got a bunch of well to do 5-6 digit liquid balance citizens, and a triple huge of working stiffs with revolving checking balances that never top 5K.
My exwife comes to mind. Full time worker, car note, student loan note, 40K income in the south. No savings. Hand to mouth all day. She's much more representative of us as American than I am (frugal, 30% net income saving, paid off car no mortgage, no student loan debt having "boring" guy). Her social life was vibrant and fulfilling, and she had the shoes and trinkets to back it up. Really, that is the Country we live in. I can't say those are immoral choices, I certainly recognize we can't all be walking around like me, particularly in a consumerist dependent economy such as ours, but we are much poorer than we give ourselves credit for. She'll die under state care, no doubt, as many Gen Y will as well when the measly retirement vehicles and poor savings culture that is required to live the "american dream" fall short of what's needed to retire on your own terms. This will become apparent in 2040. We will be very much a 2nd world looking country, no doubt about that. The rich will still have the coastal properties and trinkets, no doubt. But we're poor as a collective. Some south american middle classes, small as they may be, give us a run for our money. Yep, that bad.
So he could not find ANY work? What about unemployment, welfare?
Were you working?
Yes, I was working full time during that time. He did not qualify for unemployment, as his prior job was technically as a temp, even though he had been there for several years. He probably could have found a job for minimum wage, but #1, we weren't that desperate yet, and #2, that would limit his ability to be out looking for a better paying job. The job he ended up getting pays much better than that, and he gets a lot of paid overtime, which is nice on the pocketbook too.
We live pretty simply, so my income comes close to paying all the bills by itself, so we went through savings fairly slowly. In just 2 years, we have paid off the remainder of all non-mortgage debt (a car payment, student loan and small credit card payment) and saved up about a 9 month emergency fund again, so we have made good progress.
I refuse to accept welfare when we are both able bodied and not destitute, so I never even looked into that.
USA is the most richest country in the world as far GDP goes.
$40K a year should be good enough to live a comfortable life in the South. No reason to finance a car and college is not always a good bargain.
What you do consider the 'American Dream'? Owning a home? education? good stable work? financial freedom?
We do give money to other countries also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
America is much more poor than we give ourselves credit for. This is what happens in brazilized income disparities. You got a bunch of well to do 5-6 digit liquid balance citizens, and a triple huge of working stiffs with revolving checking balances that never top 5K.
My exwife comes to mind. Full time worker, car note, student loan note, 40K income in the south. No savings. Hand to mouth all day. She's much more representative of us as American than I am (frugal, 30% net income saving, paid off car no mortgage, no student loan debt having "boring" guy). Her social life was vibrant and fulfilling, and she had the shoes and trinkets to back it up. Really, that is the Country we live in. I can't say those are immoral choices, I certainly recognize we can't all be walking around like me, particularly in a consumerist dependent economy such as ours, but we are much poorer than we give ourselves credit for. She'll die under state care, no doubt, as many Gen Y will as well when the measly retirement vehicles and poor savings culture that is required to live the "american dream" fall short of what's needed to retire on your own terms. This will become apparent in 2040. We will be very much a 2nd world looking country, no doubt about that. The rich will still have the coastal properties and trinkets, no doubt. But we're poor as a collective. Some south american middle classes, small as they may be, give us a run for our money. Yep, that bad.
Well minimum wage is better then nothing if you want to live below your means like myself.
Why even finance a car and why pay interest on the credit card as well as the car?
That welfare is your money when you pay taxes and even if its not then why not take advantage if you qualify?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacerta
Yes, I was working full time during that time. He did not qualify for unemployment, as his prior job was technically as a temp, even though he had been there for several years. He probably could have found a job for minimum wage, but #1, we weren't that desperate yet, and #2, that would limit his ability to be out looking for a better paying job. The job he ended up getting pays much better than that, and he gets a lot of paid overtime, which is nice on the pocketbook too.
We live pretty simply, so my income comes close to paying all the bills by itself, so we went through savings fairly slowly. In just 2 years, we have paid off the remainder of all non-mortgage debt (a car payment, student loan and small credit card payment) and saved up about a 9 month emergency fund again, so we have made good progress.
I refuse to accept welfare when we are both able bodied and not destitute, so I never even looked into that.
USA is the most richest country in the world as far GDP goes.
$40K a year should be good enough to live a comfortable life in the South. No reason to finance a car and college is not always a good bargain.
What you do consider the 'American Dream'? Owning a home? education? good stable work? financial freedom?
We do give money to other countries also.
I don't know, you're gonna have to refer all those questions to my exwife. I'm not the one in that situation. I will assert she is much more representative of this country's economic attitudes and realities than I am. CD is full of frugal statistical outliers. I don't consider CD reflective of the collective.
I will say, 40K, even in the south, is treadwater money even for a single individual. You ain't starving, but you aren't going anywhere with that. The savings are meager as far as retirements is concerned (especially absent a pension), and outright lunacy to raise a family to levels where the children have the expectation of attempting college. Most people in my generation consider 40K as transitionary wages; nobody wants to get stuck making that and then hope to capitalize in the future. Those who do get stuck act like my exwife, recognizing the opportunity cost of attempting savings at that salary range falls well short of the lifestyle they deem worthwhile for having gone through the trouble of attaining a college degree and working full time in an endeavor they may or may not be passionate for. So they live paycheck to paycheck, live to the standards they were aiming college education for in the first place (think tract housing and new car heaven) and roll the dice with their retirement years.
I'm not telling you what things should be, I'm telling you what things are, based on my observations of my peers. I'm on the boring, self-righteous frugal camp you're on, again you have to address those questions to my median example ex-wife.
I also dont care about GDP. I only care about the spread. I don't believe in trickle down, so total wealth means nothing. I care about the relative living standard of the riff raff that'll torch the malls and streets if you cut the social safety net. I don't care about the empty promise I too *COULD* be Bill Gates, if I *work hard*. Let's get back to the real world problems and put down the Disney movie for a second.
Well minimum wage is better then nothing if you want to live below your means like myself.
Why even finance a car and why pay interest on the credit card as well as the car?
That welfare is your money when you pay taxes and even if its not then why not take advantage if you qualify?
Minimum wage isn't better than nothing if it means that you can't look for another job because you are stuck at work when you should be turning in applications, and by the time you get off work, all the people you want to talk to to apply are closed for the night. Living below your means is more difficult the lower your means are. And like I said, we weren't at that point yet. If we reached the point that we were out of money, he would have gotten a minimum wage job.
We financed a car because we didn't have sufficient savings at that point in time to pay cash. We did pay off a 5 year loan in under 3 years, thus saving a lot of interest. And the credit card was 0% interest.
And not accepting welfare is part of how I was raised. I don't think people who are capable of working should be on welfare. And I highly doubt that someone with no kids making what I make, even by myself, in my area's low cost of living, would qualify for welfare anyway.
I don't know, you're gonna have to refer all those questions to my exwife. I'm not the one in that situation. I will assert she is much more representative of this country's economic attitudes and realities than I am. CD is full of frugal statistical outliers. I don't consider CD reflective of the collective.
I will say, 40K, even in the south, is treadwater money even for a single individual. You ain't starving, but you aren't going anywhere with that. The savings are meager as far as retirements is concerned (especially absent a pension), and outright lunacy to raise a family to levels where the children have the expectation of attempting college. Most people in my generation consider 40K as transitionary wages; nobody wants to get stuck making that and then hope to capitalize in the future. Those who do get stuck act like my exwife, recognizing the opportunity cost of attempting savings at that salary range falls well short of the lifestyle they deem worthwhile for having gone through the trouble of attaining a college degree and working full time in an endeavor they may or may not be passionate for. So they live paycheck to paycheck, live to the standards they were aiming college education for in the first place (think tract housing and new car heaven) and roll the dice with their retirement years.
I'm not telling you what things should be, I'm telling you what things are, based on my observations of my peers. I'm on the boring, self-righteous frugal camp you're on, again you have to address those questions to my median example ex-wife.
I also dont care about GDP. I only care about the spread. I don't believe in trickle down, so total wealth means nothing. I care about the relative living standard of the riff raff that'll torch the malls and streets if you cut the social safety net. I don't care about the empty promise I too *COULD* be Bill Gates, if I *work hard*. Let's get back to the real world problems and put down the Disney movie for a second.
TOTALLY Incorrect.
I make LESS than $30K, and Live Quite well.
2 Bedroom Appt with a fireplace, Car, pair of motorcycles, had Prime Rib for lunch today, get my weekly steak etc...
The key is in your OTHER post...
About her blowing her money on junk and debt.
Oh, Should I mention I save a couple hundred bux most months? (Atleast 10 out of 12, Last year I saved $5K)
I only have $3000 in savings, but am luckier than most people in my position. I was diagnosed with cancer a month after my 23rd birthday and blew through most of my savings just in the initial diagnosis process (much of which wasn't covered by insurance). I have since had to buy a car and deal with the astronomical insurance rates in my area because public transportation is no longer an option for me.
Now I am in the red every month. There aren't social safety nets out there for young adults in my position. I am struggling to work full time because I don't qualify for FMLA and even if I did, I have maybe 3 month's expenses - if I'm lucky - saved. I have no other debt besides medical and car debt and while I will most likely will take on a bit of debt to cover books and other extraneous expenses for my MBA, I am starting a free MBA at a top ranked university through work shortly. I feel fairly confident that once my medical crisis is over, I'll be able to pull out of the debt as quickly as a 35,000 income in Boston will allow me to.
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