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We all wish we could go back and give our younger selves some advice.
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
I didn't waste much on tattoos, cigarettes, drugs and the like, but I spent my fair share on traveling, going out with friends, girls, etc... and yeah it cost money.
I possibly could have saved several thousand a year with great difficulty and not much of a social life. Everything should be done in moderation... however.... you're only going to have the physical ability (the energy, vitality, looks, body), the wherewithal, and most importantly the opportunity to have the kind of fun possible in your 20s.... well in your actual 20s. When you're 40 the opportunity is mostly gone even if the will is there, which it probably isn't.
I think this whole line of thinking is flawed. Everyone believes you can't have fun without spending money on X. And because everyone believes that, it becomes true. You're the oddball if you don't go along. But this is a self fulfilling vicious cycle. Other cultures with the same or lower incomes and cost of living manage to save more than Americans do and be just as happy or even happier than we are. So I think we need to look deeper at the crux of the problem to see how destructive excessive consumerism can be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
I'm 32 and most of my peers are wrist-deep in poopie or even well beyond that now at the soccer-taxi stage
That's because they are still operating at the level of not thinking about the long term consequences of what they are doing. Like I said, it becomes self fulfilling. You want to have fun when you're young so you don't save. Then you get older, and you buy the house, the car, and have the kids because that's what "everyone" is doing, so now you can't afford to save because you didn't prepare for it when you were younger and you just went out and acquired / did this stuff. This is the standard, unthinking, path that keeps people trapped in a vicious cycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
, so I'm glad I had fun while I did because I don't have the kind of social opportunities that I used to. If that means I won't be a millionaire when I'm 70, so be it.
Yeah, somehow I doubt you'll be saying that when you're 70 and broke. It will be "What an outrage X is so expensive. Don't they know we're seniors on fixed incomes!!!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
,My dad died at age 69 from cancer and his last 7-8 years was a pretty linear decline. His money became mostly irrelevant to him once that decline began. I try to make prudent choices, but I'm also going to take the opportunity to live when given the chance.
And I'm saying there's a whole other realm of "living" outside the consumerism box. You don't seem to get that.
For those who think saving a good chunk of their income will make them unhappy, plenty of research shows it's simply untrue:
....most of the research on consumer finance shows the same thing: people can usually save a lot more if they make saving a priority. Most people don't. Savings is an afterthought--it's the residual of whatever hasn't been spent on clothes, groceries, cars, dinners out, school trips, travel soccer team, college tuition, vacation, etc. Unsurprisingly, there's frequently no residual. However, if people decide how much to save, and then budget their consumption out of what is left, they suddenly realize that they could drive an uglier car, take the kids out of dance class, live with the kitchen the way it is, stay home for a week in August instead of going to Disneyworld, and so forth. And those people are not, as you might think prospectively, made desperately unhappy by these sacrifices. Savers are actually happier than the general population--in part, one assumes, because they're less worried.
For those who think saving a good chunk of their income will make them unhappy, plenty of research shows it's simply untrue:
....most of the research on consumer finance shows the same thing: people can usually save a lot more if they make saving a priority. Most people don't. Savings is an afterthought--it's the residual of whatever hasn't been spent on clothes, groceries, cars, dinners out, school trips, travel soccer team, college tuition, vacation, etc. Unsurprisingly, there's frequently no residual. However, if people decide how much to save, and then budget their consumption out of what is left, they suddenly realize that they could drive an uglier car, take the kids out of dance class, live with the kitchen the way it is, stay home for a week in August instead of going to Disneyworld, and so forth. And those people are not, as you might think prospectively, made desperately unhappy by these sacrifices. Savers are actually happier than the general population--in part, one assumes, because they're less worried.
This is a good point.
Sometimes I get irritated bc I want to do something and I can't bc I won't allow myself to adjust how much of my salary gets sucked into savings every month.
Then I get my statements and it's like...there's something about the security of knowing you're very well-backed. And watching your money make money is very satisfying, too.
Plus, if I really need to, I just go pick up an extra shift or something like that.
I'm surprisingly ok with that, bc over the ten years I've lived like this, I've really set aside a lot and it's grown.
BUT don't talk to me at tax time. Watching half of it all float away is really painful. We have a saying about work...a day for me and a day for free...
You might live in a state with a higher minimum, but it's not $8 everywhere. As for your W-4 suggestion, yes, you can decrease you're withholding, however single-1 is typically considered a safe estimation for an individual living alone, and if you decrease your withholding too much, then you'll start getting hit with the need to pay quarterly. Single-1 rarely results in a "large" tax refund.
But let's be generous and assume a person brings home $300/week. So $1200/month(maybe a little more when 5 paydays fall in a month).
Savings: $200
Rent: $700
Food: $300
And... we're out of money... no room for utilities, transportation, or any of the other basic expenses.
My point remains, for people living pay check to pay check in a minimum wage job, $50/week is a ton of money.
All of your examples are stretches to say the least.
Declaring yourself as a dependent while making minimum wage will absolutely not result in having to file quarterly taxes. It'll probably net you an earned income credit for crying out loud.
Anyone complaining about only earning the federal minimum wage can move a couple hundred miles and make $1-$2/hr extra. More and more cities are adopting minimum living wages as well, with some already at $11/hr.
There are THOUSANDS of tip jobs available everywhere, all the time, that blow the minimum and living wages out of the water. I know a server who stopped working his once per month bartender gig at a Hard Rock Cafe (concert hall) because his NIGHTLY tips started dipping below $300 cash.
An 18-21 year old only making $300 per week is almost certainly living with family or with roommates. They're definitely not signing $700/mo leases plus utilities. More like $400-$500 near their work with utilities included.
As of the writing of this post, I know of exactly zero people aged 18-70 who have never bought and sold something for a quick profit. Pre-Ebay and Craigslist, I suppose those making minimum wage MAY have worked their 40 hours and twiddled their thumbs for the other 72 waking hours of the week while their stomachs growled away. In 2015, millions of people easily buy and sell things online for side-income. Hundreds of thousands more drive part time for Uber.
Speaking of which, it would take less than 30 minutes per day of Uber driving to earn $200/month, net. 60 minutes for $400. Two hours for $800, etc. (All of these numbers are low...you can also make $50 in a single hour driving and $100-$200 for referring a new driver.)
Back to Craigslist and Ebay....these are now the first places people go when needing a household or personal item. Not the Sears catalog, not a brick and mortar store....Ebay and Craigslist. We buy things at bigger discounts now and sell unwanted items at prices higher than we did pre-internet.
I could write all day about ways to make or save extra money but we all know that's what people do when they need to make ends meet.
All of your examples are stretches to say the least.
Declaring yourself as a dependent while making minimum wage will absolutely not result in having to file quarterly taxes. It'll probably net you an earned income credit for crying out loud.
Anyone complaining about only earning the federal minimum wage can move a couple hundred miles and make $1-$2/hr extra. More and more cities are adopting minimum living wages as well, with some already at $11/hr.
There are THOUSANDS of tip jobs available everywhere, all the time, that blow the minimum and living wages out of the water. I know a server who stopped working his once per month bartender gig at a Hard Rock Cafe (concert hall) because his NIGHTLY tips started dipping below $300 cash.
An 18-21 year old only making $300 per week is almost certainly living with family or with roommates. They're definitely not signing $700/mo leases plus utilities. More like $400-$500 near their work with utilities included.
As of the writing of this post, I know of exactly zero people aged 18-70 who have never bought and sold something for a quick profit. Pre-Ebay and Craigslist, I suppose those making minimum wage MAY have worked their 40 hours and twiddled their thumbs for the other 72 waking hours of the week while their stomachs growled away. In 2015, millions of people easily buy and sell things online for side-income. Hundreds of thousands more drive part time for Uber.
Speaking of which, it would take less than 30 minutes per day of Uber driving to earn $200/month, net. 60 minutes for $400. Two hours for $800, etc. (All of these numbers are low...you can also make $50 in a single hour driving and $100-$200 for referring a new driver.)
Back to Craigslist and Ebay....these are now the first places people go when needing a household or personal item. Not the Sears catalog, not a brick and mortar store....Ebay and Craigslist. We buy things at bigger discounts now and sell unwanted items at prices higher than we did pre-internet.
I could write all day about ways to make or save extra money but we all know that's what people do when they need to make ends meet.
Speaking of stretches I find your claim about the use of ebay to be a bit of a stretch. You're saying that absolutely everyone you know has flipped items on Ebay for profit?
Personally, I don't know anyone who has done anything more than sold stuff they already had, or purchased something at a discount. I don't know anyone who's bought and resold. While I'm not denying people do it, I don't think it's nearly as prevalent as your post would make it seem.
That said, you're missing the point. I don't doubt that people will take on as much extra jobs as they can to get by. What is unrealistic is the expectation that they can manage to get an extra $200/month on top of already doing all the above just to make ends meet.
Depends on your goals. I'm 25. I had a lot of scholarship $$ and worked my ass off working 3 part time jobs, plus school and a 3-season athlete. It can be done.
Again, you seem pretty smart with your finances. Most people our age piddle away cash. Hell, I'd assume you live downtown, probably in Lincoln Park or Lakeview or have friends who live in those areas. You know how easy it is to thrown down $60-70 on a night out... 4-6 times per month... It all adds up.
Spot on with your entire post. Are you saying you amassed a net worth of $100K by 25 all on your own? No support from your family? Inheritence or anything? I really do extremely doubt that. I suppose you could make killer money but even then typically killer money comes with large student loan debt. I worked two jobs in college but I still had to spend money to make money and I had to eat and pay rent. So obviously not every dollar I made went into school tuition.
Speaking of stretches I find your claim about the use of ebay to be a bit of a stretch. You're saying that absolutely everyone you know has flipped items on Ebay for profit?
I am saying in no uncertain terms, that every single person I know (aged 18-70) has flipped something for a profit that involved Ebay or Craigslist. Some bought at garage sales on sold online, others bought online and sold locally. Plus there are legions of old schoolers who only deal in the flea market/storage unit/local auction house circles. Nevermind the million of scrappers who are raiding your curbside trash of all things metal at 3am every garbage night.
Have you seen a TV show in the last ten years? You'll note that there are no shortage of shows about resellers. Antiques, cars, houses, pawned items, toys, Coke machines, small businesses, etc etc etc. There are FOUR shows about storage unit flippers for heaven's sake.
To recap, zero people that I know (age 18-70) have failed to successfully flip something. Most teenagers and all but a few of the people I know over the age of 70 have as well. Being too young or old to own a computer does prevent some (not all) folks from getting in on the action.
To suggest that in this day and age people only pay retail for items and always sell at a loss is beyond naive, it's completely contrived.
I am saying in no uncertain terms, that every single person I know (aged 18-70) has flipped something for a profit that involved Ebay or Craigslist. Some bought at garage sales on sold online, others bought online and sold locally. Plus there are legions of old schoolers who only deal in the flea market/storage unit/local auction house circles. Nevermind the million of scrappers who are raiding your curbside trash of all things metal at 3am every garbage night.
Have you seen a TV show in the last ten years? You'll note that there are no shortage of shows about resellers. Antiques, cars, houses, pawned items, toys, Coke machines, small businesses, etc etc etc. There are FOUR shows about storage unit flippers for heaven's sake.
To recap, zero people that I know (age 18-70) have failed to successfully flip something. Most teenagers and all but a few of the people I know over the age of 70 have as well. Being too young or old to own a computer does prevent some (not all) folks from getting in on the action.
To suggest that in this day and age people only pay retail for items and always sell at a loss is beyond naive, it's completely contrived.
I find it highly suspect that everyone you know flipped items on eBay or Craigslist let alone for a profit. I'm not sure said people actually keep accounting records such that they'd know for sure their profit loss and how'd you know makes little sense.
This is a good point.
Sometimes I get irritated bc I want to do something and I can't bc I won't allow myself to adjust how much of my salary gets sucked into savings every month.
Then I get my statements and it's like...there's something about the security of knowing you're very well-backed. And watching your money make money is very satisfying, too.
Yep. I'll be the first to admit money isn't everything. I have a friend who's very secure financially but who is unhappy. At the same time, most people vastly underestimate the amount of happiness financial security brings. It gives you soooo much more flexibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
I'm surprisingly ok with that, bc over the ten years I've lived like this, I've really set aside a lot and it's grown.
Some people really find it satisfying to watch their money grow, but I have come to accept the reality that many people will never get a kick out of that, which I find insane, but there you have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
BUT don't talk to me at tax time. Watching half of it all float away is really painful. We have a saying about work...a day for me and a day for free...
That's a whole other thread that has been done to death a million times. No one ever changes anyone else's mind...so let's keep it on topic
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